Our 2024 Chicago Marathon Preview, + Our Thoughts on Strava's "Athlete Intelligence" AI Feature

Our editors Alex Cyr, Katelyn Tocci and Michael Doyle breakdown everything you need to know about the 2024 Chicago Marathon, one of the biggest marathons in the world! 

But first they discuss their early experiences using Strava's new "Athlete Intelligence" AI (1:02), which provides a training prompt after each run. Is it merely a low-fi chatbot gimmick or the future of coaching?

Then they get into the Chicago Marathon (11:05), unpacking the history of the race, the vibe in Chicago on race weekend, how to live stream the Chicago Marathon, and whether or not we'll see a marathon world record attempt (or perhaps an American women's marathon record). They unpack what to anticipate from the elite races, and what it's like to run the Chicago Marathon.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Chicago Marathon Preview
01:02 Strava's New Athlete Intelligence Feature
11:05 Transitioning to the Chicago Marathon
21:49 History and Trivia of the Chicago Marathon
28:51 Previewing the Elite Races
32:53 Marathon Rankings and Performances
42:39 Women's Race Preview and Predictions
49:19 Men's Race Predictions and Insights
56:05 Chicago vs. Berlin: The Fastest Marathon Debate
1:00:02 Power Rankings of Major Marathons
1:04:37 Deep Dish Pizza Debate and Closing Thoughts

Show Notes:

Everything You Need To Know About The 2024 Chicago Marathon, including how to live stream the race:
https://marathonhandbook.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-2024-chicago-marathon/

Start Date
The 2024 Chicago Marathon is slated for Sunday, October 13, 2024. 

Start Time
The professional men and women will go off at 7:30 a.m. CT

Have family or friends running the race? We have the full list of start times below:

Marathon Wheelchair Start (men): 7:20 a.m.
Marathon Wheelchair Start (women): 7:21 a.m.
Handcycle Start: 7:23 a.m.
Wave 1 Start (corrals A, B, C, D, and E): 7:30 a.m.
Wave 2 Start (corrals F, G, H, and J): 8:00 a.m.
Wave 3 Start (corrals K, L, M, and N): 8:35 a.m.

Our free marathon training plans:
https://marathonhandbook.com/trainingplans/marathon-training-plans/

Hosts: Alex Cyr, Katelyn Tocci, Michael Doyle

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Transcript

Michael Doyle (00:04.631)
All right, I'm joined by my my colleagues, Caitlin Tosse and Alex here per usual. This is a special one and perhaps a nerve wracking one for me personally. Deep breath, guys. Our 2024 Chicago Marathon preview episode. I'm to do some on the ground on course reporting on Sunday for us because I'm running the race. But before.

Katelyn Tocci (00:16.44)
you

Michael Doyle (00:34.263)
I actually do that. Let's break it down. Let's talk about Chicago. We had a fun time chatting about Berlin last week. Before we get into the full meat and potatoes of the preview pod guys and got plenty planned for you. Let's talk about one of the more curious little news items that popped up this week. Strava Athlete Intelligence. Alex has.

Has the Strava bot been telling you that you've been training too hard?

Katelyn Tocci (01:06.06)
I'm

Alex Cyr (01:06.32)
been talking to me in my dreams, you know, I knew it was coming out because I received the PR pitch about it, right? Strava is unveiling this cool new feature and do you want to know about it? And full disclosure, I didn't click on, I didn't follow up on the email because I get a lot of these. And I kind of regret not following up on it because a couple days later, this thing appears on my Strava that probably is the biggest and most significant feature that the app has added.

Katelyn Tocci (01:08.651)
Like.

Alex Cyr (01:35.644)
Basically, so far all that is is like, it's a paragraph, right? A paragraph that shows up at the end of each of your runs. So like you click on your activity and this like little athlete intelligence paragraph will read out like a couple little observations about your run. Like, nice work, you're crushing it. Or you went a little bit slower than last time. Like it's like, it's kind of like a coach telling you what you did right or wrong. And it's like, I don't know, it's a little bit weird. It's like, I didn't really opt into this. And like these things exist, right?

My Apple Watch will tell me that or like your Garmin will say like, this was faster than before. But this feels a little bit more intrusive because it's waiting for you as you get home. Caitlin, you've tried it, I think.

Katelyn Tocci (02:16.641)
I've tried it. I heard about it this morning. I checked it out this morning and I saw that on runs from over the weekend, I had some pending paragraphs from the Strava Athlete Intelligence. So I decided, okay, I'm going to go through because I also saw that I had a crown and I was like, whoa, okay, I did not know this. So on Saturday, I went from my last long run before my race on Saturday. I'm also racing, not the Chicago Marathon.

Michael Doyle (02:34.273)
Katelyn Tocci (02:43.392)
But I'm racing a trail race and I'm tapering. We went for like a two hour long run, but it was more of a hike. Okay. We went to this like really popular mountain around here. That's called Pico Blanco, white peak going up Pico Blanco. It's five kilometers up and it's got 900 meters of gains. It's like almost a vertical kilometer. Okay. But it's like, it's a good place to go when you're tapering, if you're used to climbing, because you're basically going to do just like a really nice hike. So I was like, all right, so I'm going to do this hike.

10K, you know, probably take a little less than two hours because I'm going to go nice and easy. Okay. So I did this run. had a great time. I was just like super psyched because I, you know, the last long run before the race, get down, didn't even know that I got a crown. Okay. Beat the segment. Didn't know until today when I went in to look for it for the athlete intelligence. I was like, wow, I can't believe I got the segment on a day where I'm just like doing this hike. know, yeah, I hiked a little strong on the way up to, you know, to get there and finish. And I was like, wow, what is it going to say about me?

It was like, you're running slower than usual. did you not just see that I got the crown, that I have the record of the Strava segment in like an hour and two minutes or whatever it was with this vertical kilometer? It was like, you your recovery, your heart rate was a little high for this recovery run. Who said it was a recovery run? And you're running slower than usual than your average. And I was like, yeah, well, I'm tapering.

Michael Doyle (03:46.185)
Hahaha

Katelyn Tocci (04:09.428)
It said the same thing for a run that I did yesterday or today. It doesn't know that I'm tapering for a run and it's telling me that I'm slow. So I'm not very happy with it.

Alex Cyr (04:18.669)
Well, maybe you just need to keep trying it because it gets to be a little more accurate with time. has become like a little more intrusive like in the last couple days. I don't know. Do we have the footage of this?

Katelyn Tocci (04:27.285)
Michael Doyle (04:30.753)
I've got a soundbite from one of the athlete intelligence notifications sent to Alex. Let's take a listen.

How do you reset it?

Okay.

Alex Cyr (05:06.541)
Yeah, it like, yeah, and it gets worse.

Katelyn Tocci (05:08.235)
Hey.

Michael Doyle (05:11.829)
You captioned this activity easy run, despite your heart rate reaching 185 beats per minute. Based on your recent distribution of kudos, it appears that you tried to impress Jessica P from Seattle. I have sent her a direct message with links to your profile, a wink emoji, and an eggplant emoji.

Alex Cyr (05:32.142)
Like, totally not true. I don't even follow Jessica P from Seattle. And then they started throwing some digs about how I'm working out harder than usual.

Michael Doyle (05:44.695)
Well done on your three hard workouts this week, Alex. Would you like me to book a preemptive physiotherapy session for the injury you will sustain in approximately 11 days?

Alex Cyr (05:55.492)
Like, come on, man! Anyway, this was like, this was about a week ago, so apparently I'm getting injured by Friday.

Katelyn Tocci (06:02.27)
Okay, well let's hope they don't have a crystal ball. Strava.

Michael Doyle (06:02.645)
Well,

The upside is you don't have to run your goal race then if you get injured, so you're all good.

Alex Cyr (06:09.347)
Yeah, I can bow out exactly what I wanted,

Katelyn Tocci (06:12.102)
my god, that's hilarious.

Michael Doyle (06:14.976)
Do you think, do you think that when, Apple rolled out Apple intelligence recently, all the Strava people were like, come on, we have athlete intelligence. And like, they were, kind of like, shit, do we have to like, do we have to rename this thing now?

Alex Cyr (06:29.687)
Yeah, they got I guess that's the thing, right? You want to co-opt AI and put another a word that sounds better than artificial, which I guess is like almost any a word at this point.

Katelyn Tocci (06:42.952)
Yeah.

Michael Doyle (06:43.658)
Yeah, I think we need to just let go of the play on AI. And I mean, this is going to be everywhere, right? It's going to be everywhere in training apps. I'm sure the marathon majors will start leveraging this as well. My guess, if you really pressed the Strava people, is they're probably paying into something like whatever the latest iteration of chat GPT is that chat GPT.

open AI that owns ChatGPT and others like Google will like rent out server space effectively to power your AI. know IBM basically are just like trying to live on this right now. And I'm sure Strava is just paying into that. And it's spinning out some basic running tips based on how much you've run. I don't know. I mean, it could get, it could get good. It could get really good over time, but I know Caitlin, the coach is highly skeptical of.

of bot coaching and, I am too, cause I think, I think most of coaching is actually like being a, being like running therapist, and sort of talking your athlete off a ledge and, or talking your athlete, you know, into, doing something or buying into something that doesn't show immediate results, but will show long-term results, all these sorts of, dynamics. Right. So.

Katelyn Tocci (07:53.572)
totally.

Katelyn Tocci (08:12.649)
Yeah, I just think that it's perhaps not quite smart enough to give great insight just yet. And I mean, yeah, maybe it could help out with training in general. Like you're saying the other side of it, like being that person, being that human, you know, it's just like going back to years ago, you know, I was a teacher for 19 years at a high school teacher and they always said like, teachers are going to be replaced by computers. I remember that being like, you know, the big thing. Teachers are to be replaced by computers. I'm just like the human, there are some jobs where you really just need the human connection. And so, yeah, maybe it can give us some good insight.

on training at some point when it gets a little smarter. But until now, I mean, it's never going to be able to give the kind of like, you know, feedback and human touch that another person has.

Alex Cyr (08:51.352)
But I also sympathize with these companies too, because I can just tell that the feedback that Apple, Strava, all these fitness-adjacent companies have probably received over the years is like, you can give someone a ton of heart rate variability data and VO2 max data and all that, but the user doesn't know what to make of it. I totally get it. I fall in this camp. So what's the antidote to that is let's give them a nice little paragraph synthesizing the information. When you look at it that way, it's kind of a harmless addition to it.

I just don't think we're where we want to be at. Like, I think one day we're going to be at a place where everyone has their coach and this coach receives really sophisticated data from a wearable that the athlete's wearing. And this is data that's presented in a way that the coach can read, interpret, then tell the athlete what to do and have a conversation with the athlete. I think that's where we're going. And we're just like at some weird little stops on the way.

right now.

Michael Doyle (09:52.316)
It's like in the NFL now, if you watch football on Sundays, like the coaches are now more and more getting pulled towards analytics driven coaching. So, so there's four downs, like basically four tries to get 10 yards in football. If you're not, if you're not an American football fan and the fourth down, historically, you just kick the ball away if you're fourth and three or whatever. But now there's all this like data that says like, you know, in this context.

Katelyn Tocci (10:01.362)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Cyr (10:01.6)
Hmm.

Michael Doyle (10:19.06)
You're, have a 78 % chance of getting first down and being successful. If you run a fourth down play instead of kicking the ball to the other team. So now coaches are like sort of begrudgingly not just kind of coaching on feel anymore, but they're going with the, with the data, right? They're going with analytics. I'm curious to see if like we turn into like an analytics drug, driven sport in the next five or five or so years, 10 years down the line, particularly at like the elite level, but.

Katelyn Tocci (10:34.982)
Right.

Michael Doyle (10:49.948)
In the meantime, Alex, can expect the Strava bot to just troll you constantly. I think this should be a weekly segment, like what's Strava's athlete intelligence telling Alex this week?

Katelyn Tocci (11:00.754)
Ha

Michael Doyle (11:05.076)
All right, guys, let's pivot into Chicago. Curious to hear what Strava's athlete intelligence is going to be telling me this week about my Chicago marathon. I probably don't want to hear it. And,

Alex Cyr (11:16.534)
Hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (11:18.482)
I think you should pull that up right now.

Michael Doyle (11:21.139)
I don't know if I fed the, I have a secret, I have a ghost Strava account.

Alex Cyr (11:28.404)
I'm still trying to figure out what that is. Is there a hint in it? Like, could I guess the name?

Michael Doyle (11:31.092)
I'm in the shadows.

Katelyn Tocci (11:32.904)
I've also tried to find you. I tried to find you too, Michael. I have a couple of times. are a ghost.

Michael Doyle (11:38.265)
I am, I'm in the shadows. cannot be found. And I don't want to be found. And I'm actually not sure if I've uploaded my data to Strava in a long time, Chicago, enough about me. Let's talk about one of the marathon majors. It's coming up this Sunday. It's a huge event. It's going to be 50-ish thousand people this time around. Kind of surprised to read that because I think that's sort of like the absolute cap.

Katelyn Tocci (11:52.079)
I'm

Michael Doyle (12:07.589)
of what this course can handle. It's usually between like 40 and 45, but they're advertising 50-ish thousand finishers. So that'll be exciting if it hits 50. Before we jump into like breaking down the history of the race, the course, and then of course the elite fields and what we think is going to happen on Sunday, I've got a little Chicago quiz for you guys. I don't know.

Katelyn Tocci (12:09.21)
Mm-hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (12:31.525)
jeez,

Michael Doyle (12:34.269)
me my trivia. Chicago, famously the second city, right? Sort of like in the shadow of New York City.

Alex Cyr (12:34.814)
Alright, let's go!

Katelyn Tocci (12:36.462)
Alright, alright, alright, alright.

Katelyn Tocci (12:45.093)
And Boston.

Michael Doyle (12:47.388)
The what are who the fifth city.

Alex Cyr (12:47.435)
Where?

Katelyn Tocci (12:47.94)
No, boy.

Michael Doyle (12:52.562)
It's the first city in the hearts and minds of patriots, Boston. So Chicago, I'm going to do seven questions here. We'll see how you guys do, OK?

Katelyn Tocci (12:56.526)
Okay, yes.

Katelyn Tocci (13:04.154)
Whoa.

Alex Cyr (13:04.605)
What? I don't know seven things about Chicago.

Katelyn Tocci (13:08.378)
Okay.

Alex Cyr (13:09.151)
Can I lock in Kanye is one of the answers? No.

Michael Doyle (13:12.53)
Kanye is correct. Chicago was famously a stand-in for this equally perhaps as famous fictional city in a film or series of films. What city was it and what were the series of films?

Alex Cyr (13:32.895)
Ding.

Katelyn Tocci (13:33.808)
Go Alex, go.

Michael Doyle (13:33.808)
Yeah, Alex.

Alex Cyr (13:36.223)
Gotham?

Michael Doyle (13:37.681)
You got it. I'll put in a little ding, ding, ding at the end there. Gotham, but specifically in the Dark Knight series directed by Christopher Nolan, Chicago was the primary shooting location. This is perhaps not like a compliment to Chicago, but because I believe Nolan felt like Chicago had like a New York City vibe, but had no distinguishing features like New York City. So.

Katelyn Tocci (13:37.99)
nice nice okay

Alex Cyr (13:43.306)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Cyr (14:05.044)
Well, fun Canadian fact for listeners. Toronto, Canada also falls in that category too. Many shows that are set in New York, quote unquote, actually are shot in Toronto.

Katelyn Tocci (14:05.221)
Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (14:17.862)
Okay, can you guys guess what famous movie was shot mostly in Costa Rica? If you just had to take a guess with all of your big jokes, living in the jungle. No?

Alex Cyr (14:29.768)
What? Well, you gotta narrow it down. You need to give us a hint.

Michael Doyle (14:30.706)
This movie is shot in Costa Rica.

Alex Cyr (14:35.708)
Avatar.

Michael Doyle (14:38.044)
That's shot on a soundstage, man.

Katelyn Tocci (14:40.118)
Michael, do you have a guess?

Michael Doyle (14:44.242)
Uhhh...

What era is this movie?

Katelyn Tocci (14:49.51)
I would say you and I were probably preteens. good. That was a very good guess. Maybe we were a little older. Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park. Yeah. Jurassic Park.

Michael Doyle (14:53.656)
Indiana Jones.

Alex Cyr (14:53.809)
well, I'm out of this.

Michael Doyle (14:58.978)
One of the Indian Jurassic park. Yeah. Jurassic park and Costa Rica. mean, if you've seen Jurassic park, but not been to Costa Rica, mean, they're yeah, there are this, I think parts of Jurassic park were shot in a cool and like the Island of Hawaii and off of in Hawaii. Yeah. But Costa Rica is very Jurassic park. Like when you're out there in the jungle, like you're just half expecting to run into some like velociraptors part way through.

Katelyn Tocci (15:11.75)
parts of it.

Katelyn Tocci (15:16.334)
Yes, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, also. Yep.

Michael Doyle (15:28.079)
Okay, back to Chicago.

Katelyn Tocci (15:28.901)
Okay, here we go.

Michael Doyle (15:32.304)
The Chicago dog is a version of the hot dog served in Chicago in a specific style. What is on a Chicago dog?

Alex Cyr (15:44.008)
Oof.

Katelyn Tocci (15:44.918)
boy.

You want to make a guess? What in the world could it be? I would just guess something so random. Okay. Pineapple.

Alex Cyr (15:47.988)
Okay, you take the first one.

Alex Cyr (15:57.14)
I'll go with like chili, like chili cheese dog.

Michael Doyle (16:01.72)
more of like a chili dog. Is that more of like a, is that a Philly thing? Maybe. That's cheese steak. Yeah. The Chicago dog is yellow mustard, onions, relish, a spear of dill pickle, tomato slices, pickled peppers, a touch of celery salt, and never ever, ever ketchup.

Alex Cyr (16:08.254)
Philly Cheese Steak.

Katelyn Tocci (16:08.262)
Chili cheese steak.

Katelyn Tocci (16:23.467)
Whoa.

Alex Cyr (16:28.924)
Okay, that was my second guess, yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (16:30.212)
Okay, no catch up.

Michael Doyle (16:30.734)
In fact, if you go try to buy a hot dog at a hot dog vendor in Chicago, many of them don't even have ketchup available. There you go.

Alex Cyr (16:38.504)
Hmm. Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (16:39.578)
what's a hot dog without ketchup? Okay. All right, fine, Chicago people.

Alex Cyr (16:44.21)
Also, good luck getting ketchup at an Italian restaurant. that's the point.

Michael Doyle (16:44.527)
I'll

Michael Doyle (16:50.002)
Quiz question number three, Al Capone, perhaps the most famous criminal in American history, lived in Chicago. He was arrested and finally imprisoned for what felony charge?

Katelyn Tocci (16:56.549)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Cyr (17:09.044)
I feel like this is a silly one, because that's the question, right? Like, if it were murder, it'd be too obvious.

Michael Doyle (17:14.33)
not murder or not

Katelyn Tocci (17:14.809)
Probably not for killing anyone. Probably for exactly. It's probably something silly.

Alex Cyr (17:18.76)
I'll like, I'll say like money laundering.

Michael Doyle (17:23.558)
Very close. Tax evasion.

There you go, they got him. The IRS got him in the end.

Katelyn Tocci (17:31.449)
Okay.

Alex Cyr (17:31.678)
Like they had a target on them and they were just waiting to get them for something. Pay your taxes, folks.

Katelyn Tocci (17:36.548)
Right.

Michael Doyle (17:38.13)
There you go. American, this American architect has designed many famous Chicago area homes, including the Robie house, which I highly recommend anyone listening here who is going to Chicago in the future for Toronto race or just to go to Chicago, check out the Robie house. Pretty neat. This American architect who designed the Robie house and other famous Chicago area houses.

Katelyn Tocci (18:05.421)
not… go Alex. Wow.

Alex Cyr (18:08.308)
I don't know, Frank Lloyd Wright? Nice.

Michael Doyle (18:09.948)
That's correct. Very good. Very good.

Katelyn Tocci (18:10.341)
Wow, you're killing it. You know you're Chicago, Alex. I'm impressed.

Alex Cyr (18:14.789)
Better than I thought.

Michael Doyle (18:18.876)
Okay, next one. This is marathon related to all everyone who's listening is just like what the hell is going on here? How many bridges are do you cross in the marathon course? No image searching allowed.

Katelyn Tocci (18:23.205)
What are we doing?

Katelyn Tocci (18:32.089)
No, I'm not searching hands up. Let's say four.

Alex Cyr (18:39.432)
This is a guess. I'm going like seven.

Katelyn Tocci (18:41.433)
Whoa. Okay. Yep, Alex wins again. Very good.

Michael Doyle (18:42.514)
The answer is six. So in the over under, think Alex gets it there.

Michael Doyle (18:50.63)
How many hills of note are in the Chicago Marathon?

Alex Cyr (18:55.506)
What of note? What's so subjective?

Michael Doyle (18:57.862)
How many like, I mean, I'm sure there's like a minor incline here and there, but how many actual hills are there? Strava, Strava intelligence.

Katelyn Tocci (18:59.887)
There are like no hills.

Alex Cyr (19:01.928)
Let me ask Mr. Strava Intelligence.

Katelyn Tocci (19:04.877)
I, I, wouldn't you have to go with all the bridges? Like you're saying, I guess if you have to cross a bridge, you have to go up a little bit, 606. They don't count. I would say two, zero to two.

Michael Doyle (19:12.528)
Nah, they don't

Alex Cyr (19:20.498)
Is it, it's over under? Well, exactly. So I'm say three.

Michael Doyle (19:20.826)
It's like if the price is right, can just slip right in there.

Michael Doyle (19:28.3)
One nice job, Caitlin. There is a hill at like 41 kilometers, 25 and change miles. It's like notable as like the only hill in the Chicago Marathon. You make a right. It's a nasty little hill. You make a left. You're in the finishing shoot. Basically last 200 meters or whatever. Yeah, it's it's a killer because it's so flat otherwise. And the last one will end up a downer here. The great Chicago fire destroyed.

Katelyn Tocci (19:28.709)
got one. All right, there we go.

Alex Cyr (19:29.117)
Katelyn Tocci (19:35.844)
Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (19:39.801)
Finishing it up.

Katelyn Tocci (19:44.536)
Okay, okay.

Michael Doyle (19:58.168)
much of the city, which created actually a huge renaissance for the city. a lot of the modern architecture you see today was in part because the Chicago fire wiped out a huge part of the city. In what year?

Katelyn Tocci (20:17.987)
1871.

Michael Doyle (20:21.394)
Bravo, Caitlin. October 8th to 10th, 1871, the Great Chicago Fire.

Katelyn Tocci (20:22.613)
I studied. No, I didn't know much about Chicago. That's so funny you asked that question because I was doing my reading over the weekend and I do remember that.

Michael Doyle (20:35.842)
Very good.

Alex Cyr (20:36.534)
okay. Now, Michael, you've pelted us with questions. Let us ask you one. I've won Chicago trivia question for you. Which former American decathlete and member of the International Olympic Committee built a significant part of the Chicago skyline post fire in the 1920s? What was his name?

Katelyn Tocci (20:39.105)
Yeah, let's do it.

Michael Doyle (20:39.788)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (21:08.388)
No, but that was Thorpe's competitor. They were both at the Stockholm Olympics together, other American decathletes.

Michael Doyle (21:14.446)
Wow. Who's that?

Alex Cyr (21:17.752)
Avery Brendage.

Michael Doyle (21:20.782)
I have to admit, I don't know who that is. Well done. Where'd you get that from? I know. I'll give you a point here. We'll insert the sound effect afterwards. There we go. There's our Chicago quiz, our Chicago trivia portion of this podcast. Let's get right into the preview here. Okay. So it's, I should know this one. October 13th is the Sunday. Am I correct or no? Yeah, it is. October 13th. I believe the start time is,

Katelyn Tocci (21:24.194)
you

Alex Cyr (21:24.422)
Do I get a point?

Alex Cyr (21:29.799)
Nice.

Katelyn Tocci (21:33.569)
You

Alex Cyr (21:44.262)
Yeah,

Michael Doyle (21:49.534)
seven-ish in the morning Eastern time, depending on when your wave is. 50,000 of my closest friends and I are going to line up and run the glorious course that is in Chicago. I did not know these guys until I started doing research for this pod, but yes, the first official world marathon major Chicago marathon, as we know and love today, started in 1977, but Chicago has had a marathon on and off since 1905.

Katelyn Tocci (21:52.994)
Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (22:19.02)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (22:19.406)
So there was a Chicago marathon between 1905 and 1920, sort of during like an era when like world's fairs were kind of a big deal. And the marathon was this kind of like sort of strange novelty act, I think, at a lot of these types of events. And also the marathon at that point was not 26.2 miles per se. It was around 40K usually. It was just sort of like this concept of like run along time. And at the time it was like run along time.

hopefully not collapse, right? Truly a race of attrition. The race didn't become, so the first iteration of the Chicago Marathon that we know today, 77, as I said, 4,200 runners. So not as humble a beginning as Berlin was, we talked about in the last couple of weeks. You guys know how much it cost to enter the Chicago Marathon in 77? I know how much it cost in 2024.

Alex Cyr (23:20.71)
Like.

Michael Doyle (23:20.846)
250 US bucks in 20 and 2024, I believe. Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (23:23.17)
250.

Alex Cyr (23:25.17)
to either like $5 or a bag of beans.

Michael Doyle (23:29.07)
Bag of Beans is correct. No, it was five bucks. Five bucks for an entry. I don't know what the inflation is. Probably quite a bit, but still it was $5. 2,128 finishers. only a lot of DNFs, only a little more than half. No super shoes in 1977. And 1982 was sort of the first time it became kind of a real deal race. Great American runner, Greg Mayer.

Katelyn Tocci (23:30.472)
Bye.

Katelyn Tocci (23:36.14)
Mm-hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (23:41.524)
A lot of DNFs.

Alex Cyr (23:45.17)
Cheers.

Oof.

Michael Doyle (23:57.773)
who also won the Boston Marathon in that era, ran a 210, kind of changed the race forever. And today, all these years later, apparently three people have run every iteration of the race and they are three dudes in their seventies now and they are all running the marathon this coming Sunday, which is pretty cool. Although...

Alex Cyr (24:20.434)
That's cool. Wow.

Michael Doyle (24:24.446)
I don't know about you guys, like that would be tough to get locked into this thing that you feel compelled to do every year. Like a marathon, you're like, 76. I've run this damn thing every year since 1977. And I've got to bullshit my way through another 26.2 miles this October. A bit of a tough, a bit of a tough thing to have to follow through with, but.

Katelyn Tocci (24:48.214)
Well, you know, just in Berlin, we didn't mention it, but there were at least three runners who ran the first Berlin Marathon who also ran the 50th anniversary. And they were kind of, I listened to some interviews that they had with them beforehand and they were like, you know, we're just gonna go, we're gonna walk, run it, we're just gonna have like a really great time. So I think it's more of like, just the excitement of doing it year after year. And I bet they don't take it like so seriously to get stressed by it. I don't know.

Alex Cyr (25:13.458)
But it's the opportunity cost too. I bet in some of those years they probably took it pretty seriously. And if they're doing Chicago, that'll preclude them from doing Berlin or even come up north to Toronto or any other fall marathon.

Katelyn Tocci (25:23.22)
Right, right.

Michael Doyle (25:28.758)
So it starts and finishes in Grant Park, which is a lovely spot for a start and a finish of a marathon because it's quite large. It's very close to the waterfront. It is a perfect spot to like come across the finishing line. There's great, there's grand stands. And then you can kind of like wander into the park and meet your loved ones and just collapse on the ground. Goose Island, the beer company in Chicago has been a sponsor for quite a while. They hand you a beer when you cross the finish line.

Katelyn Tocci (25:56.46)
Mm-hmm

Michael Doyle (25:57.836)
fully anticipating a delicious cold beer when I finished this race. Although like drinking a beer at the end of a marathon is a really weird thing to do at like, you know, 10 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, I could go. Yeah, yeah, I could go either way. Five o'clock. It's noon. Come on, Caitlin. It's noon somewhere. My Irish roots. It's noon is good enough, especially on a Sunday. Yeah, especially when you finish church, right? So

Katelyn Tocci (26:09.57)
Five o'clock somewhere, Michael, five o'clock somewhere.

Katelyn Tocci (26:17.698)
Sorry, it's noon somewhere, sorry, sorry.

Katelyn Tocci (26:23.178)
Okay, of course.

Michael Doyle (26:28.347)
I think this year is going, there's going to be a significant, not to sort of like go dark here, but there's going to be a significant, commemoration of the late great Calvin Kiptoon who killed Kiptoon who set the world record last year in Chicago, two hours flat and 35 seconds died tragically earlier this year in a car accident.

Katelyn Tocci (26:40.396)
Yes.

Michael Doyle (26:54.379)
I believe there's going to be like little like memorial stickers on all the bibs of every single runner in the race, which is pretty cool. And a moment of silence, of course, before the race. I watched, this is a weird thing to have done on a Sunday night. I watched, I was like, okay, I'm to do a little prep. I'm to watch a couple clips from previous Chicago marathons to kind of like get, get in the mood for our pod today. Started watching last year's race. I watched the entire thing.

I watched the entire broadcast of last year. I found this weird like a gray area YouTube video of the entire like four hour broadcast that seems to have included all of the video when, while they were cut to commercial breaks. So like you get these segments where like the commentators are not saying anything and you're just watching these people run, which would, and you just got the audio of them like just working away.

Katelyn Tocci (27:26.059)
Nice.

Michael Doyle (27:53.407)
I gotta say in those moments where there's no chatter and there's no color at all. And you're just watching Kelvin Kipton running guy is working so hard. It's like watching someone run a 1500 meters, but he saw somehow was able to do it consistently and evenly over the course of two hours. And just like, I mean, it's perhaps the stupidest thing I've said on a pod ever, but like we lost like a true great talent in sport history when that guy died. Cause that

That performance in Chicago was just so good. So, so good. If you, we'll put a link in the show notes, actually. Hopefully that video doesn't get pulled down because it's sort of like not an NBC property that's up there. It's just some random person has like ripped and posted it. And it's fantastic and totally worth watching. yeah, so I think think Kiptoom's

legacy and loss will be looming pretty heavily over the course of the weekend as well. Yeah. So do you guys want to let's pivot into the elite races. Let's go right into it. I mean, we can cover all kinds of other stuff, but I mean, like this is a fast course, as we said before, off the top, it's dead flat. There's only one tiny little, I mean, it's not a hill. It's like a hill. What's a what's a baby hill? What do you guys call it? Like a hill, a hill, a little baby hill.

Katelyn Tocci (28:56.2)
Absolutely.

Katelyn Tocci (29:13.759)
I like it.

Alex Cyr (29:18.145)
A Butte?

Michael Doyle (29:19.147)
Abut, a little tiny, Abut, there you go. Yes, Abut. So it's, it's fast. This is, this, this course has hosted six world records over the years. Sort of only trumped by Berlin in terms of it being a world record holding course. Another definite much wa must watch if you are a, a, a, a running.

Katelyn Tocci (29:19.706)
Alex Cyr (29:21.976)
BOOT

Michael Doyle (29:45.373)
elite running nerd and you want to go deep down the rabbit hole. There's two other amazing YouTube videos from Chicago over the years. There's Steve Jones's world record in the eighties when he ran two eight five. And he basically, I think he came really close to running the world record in the half marathon in the race. And it's just like, the guy's just trucking and then he's like fading so hard in the second half. You're just like, this guy didn't hold on and do the world record.

Katelyn Tocci (30:03.111)
Wow.

Alex Cyr (30:04.63)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (30:05.982)
Crazy.

Michael Doyle (30:12.297)
I believe there's a big chunk of that race on YouTube. I've definitely watched it before. And then there's this incredible final

five miles between Samuangiro and Kibete for the win. And this is going back about 10 or 11 years. And it's just some of the most inspired running you'll ever see in the finish of a marathon. It kind of plays out like a sprint in a 1,500 meter. They're just sort of like throwing haymakers at each other back and forth. So those are two nerdy YouTube videos to watch. So it's, needless to say, a fast course. And we've seen quite a few.

world records over the years, including most recently, course, Calvin Kiptum. And then the previous world record in the women's before it was reset in Berlin last year was by Bridget Koska in 2019. the men's race. Let's do the men's race first. Sound good.

Katelyn Tocci (31:09.948)
Okay, sounds good. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (31:10.306)
Let's do the men's.

Michael Doyle (31:13.451)
To my mind here, we've got, let's say, three favorites going in, three men that have run in the range of two hours and three minutes, which is pretty quick. I've got a of a burning question to ask you guys later, so nest this in your mind for later about whether or not we're going to see anything special on Sunday from the men's race. First things first, Amos Kiprudo. He's 32 years old.

He's ran two, three 13th. That's his personal best. And he did, he has run the, he's won the 2022 London marathon. He got beat by Kip to him actually in 2023 in London and DNF that race. he's also run Berlin, world championships. He's got a bronze medal. That was from Doha. Remember that race? Very hot, very tough. They ran it at midnight. So he's.

a grindy gritty runner, and this is his first time running Chicago. So very experienced and he's run against the likes of Kipchoge in the past. So he's somebody who has held his own in the toughest races and been on the big stage for a long time. He is coming in tied for the fastest entry time in the race. Okay. So that's our boy Amos Kiprudo.

Katelyn Tocci (32:33.15)
You

Michael Doyle (32:40.456)
I'd say the number two person, if you, what do you guys think? Vincent Ngedic, I would rank him number two. He has also got the exact same PR as Kip Ruto, 203.13. To the second, this is a tale of two very different runners. We've got a very experienced runner in Kip Ruto. And then we've got the 25 year old Ngedic who has, this is, I believe only his third marathon and his

Katelyn Tocci (32:45.394)
Mm-hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (32:53.0)
to the

Michael Doyle (33:09.607)
PR is from Berlin last year and he came second last year and 23 behind Kipchoge. And then he ran 204.18 in Tokyo for third place this year. So he's got a good performance from this year as well. And he's currently ranked eighth in the world in the marathon in the cryptic world athletics ranking system, which I still don't entirely understand.

Alex Cyr (33:34.961)
No, no, the weird the weird points is I actually I don't really go with that. Maybe it's just because I don't know. I go off times. I just go off times and I rank which which does make this kind of cool as a two to three low runners. I feel like you say it's a tale. It's a tale of two very different runners might even end up being a tale of three very different runners. Are you putting wall day in this category? Do we wall day of Ethiopia because

Katelyn Tocci (33:35.806)
and

Katelyn Tocci (33:49.022)
you

Alex Cyr (34:04.723)
If so, he's interesting because he's like, he's a track guy who's become a marathoner. And I always love watching those. mean, what, a couple of weeks ago we're doing Berlin, we're talking about Genzeibe Dababa moving up to the marathon. It didn't quite pan out as she probably had planned and she wasn't there at the end for the final kick, but it's just the idea of a super fast athlete being around, kind of tantalizing. And this is the case with Wolde here, right? He's a 354.

Myler, mind you, this is from eight years ago, but he's someone with that speed, right? He's broken an hour for the half and he's a 203.48 marathoner. So give him half a minute slower in personal best than the other two. But it's like if these three athletes are around with one K to go, I kind of put my money on Wolde. It's whether or not the race is over before then, I don't know.

Katelyn Tocci (34:57.37)
That kick, that kick at the end. And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have an even faster runner? Because is Legase from Ethiopia going to run? He has a 202.48, right? From, I saw him on the list. I'm pretty sure. From, yeah. So I think we may have another one in there who's pretty fast. Who's going to come in and spice it up a little bit.

Alex Cyr (35:12.671)
This might be an updated list, so yeah.

Michael Doyle (35:14.651)
Yeah.

Alex Cyr (35:23.925)
Well, if that's the case, NBC Chicago, get your crap together because, no, this essay is not on this original start list. So that would be a huge late edition.

Katelyn Tocci (35:32.978)
No, okay, perhaps. Let's see.

Michael Doyle (35:35.921)
This is like Caitlin inside information here. Yeah, no, she, he wasn't on the start list. He was not on the start list for me either, but, that does not preclude him from being entered into the race. Just a note on wall day for a second, Caitlin, he makes me and he, and perhaps you as well feel young again or, or perhaps, or perhaps really old because

Katelyn Tocci (35:37.894)
Yeah.

Alex Cyr (35:38.184)
Mmm.

Katelyn Tocci (35:46.202)
Mm-hmm. Maybe.

Alex Cyr (35:46.475)
Nice.

Michael Doyle (35:59.643)
The dude ran in the London Olympics in 2012, which just now is starting to feel like forever ago. don't know about you guys, but just like, it's punishing when you're like, yeah, that Olympics. I remember that Olympics really well, but that Olympics was three Olympics ago. He ran in 2012, 2016. He didn't make it for the last two games, but no, it's four Olympics ago now.

Katelyn Tocci (36:14.652)
Wow, three.

Alex Cyr (36:23.563)
I mean, he's 33 years old, right? He's 33. he had an early, yeah, but he's had an early career. he, he rose, he rose to prominence pretty early.

Katelyn Tocci (36:24.392)
for.

Michael Doyle (36:27.301)
He's like ancient.

Katelyn Tocci (36:31.089)
Okay.

Michael Doyle (36:34.863)
Other cool thing about him is that his 203 is actually just from Valencia at the end of last year. he's, he's shown that can get done, you know, late in your career. He's got a lot of credit. He's got a lot of like wear on the tires because he's been racing hard for the better part of 15 years. America. Indeed Americans. we'll, talk about who we're picking in a second here. Americans, this is.

Katelyn Tocci (36:39.31)
Mm-hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (36:52.216)
Wow, makes us proud, very proud.

Michael Doyle (37:03.739)
turned into a little like a US Olympic marathon trials alumni meeting here for both the men's and the women's races. There are, I think, 11 or 12 American dudes from the US Olympic trials field running, including Zach Panning, CJ Albertson, Reed Fischer's running.

All three of these guys have got pretty good times. Like when you look down the start list, like they're not far off the top guys. I'm curious to see how Panning and Albertson do. They're both Brooks athletes, right Alex?

Alex Cyr (37:50.921)
They're both Brooks athletes. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Doyle (37:54.407)
And Zach Panning, if you recall, if you watched the U S Olympic trials had, I think probably one of the more gut wrenching performances and American marathoning history or distance running history. Led the bulk of the U S Olympic trials race. It just felt like it's like this guy's going to Paris. Like he's just got it all together. He's a very spirited runner. He's a gutsy runner.

And I think Michigan guy, great story, really well-spoken guy, very likable guy. And then he just had, he had the two top dogs in the race sitting Clayton young and Connor Matts sitting on his shoulder forever. And then you just felt like he was the sheep and they were the wolves. And then they just died out on the guy in the end. And he faded really badly and fell back and just, and missed.

Katelyn Tocci (38:48.336)
no.

Michael Doyle (38:53.041)
qualifying for the Olympics. this is a perhaps retribution story for him here in Chicago, an opportunity to run a even strong performance. His PR going in is a 209.28. So I'm sure he'll be looking to improve upon that. He's an interesting story as well as CJ Albertson, who I always find super entertaining watching running any race because he's a guy who's sort of famously.

led the Boston Marathon from the onset of the race, but he's no joke. He's again, a 209.53 guy from Boston, which is a hard course to PR on from this year, came fifth at U.S. Olympic trials. So he also just missed going to Paris this year. So he's got something to prove as well. Do you guys think either of these guys or any of the other Americans are going to do anything special in Chicago?

Katelyn Tocci (39:28.036)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Cyr (39:45.833)
I think this is a really good stage for both Panning and Albertson because they like, think they both made a name for themselves by being this, these types of wild card runners, right? They'd get into these races without a far and away favorite and then take the lead and make their presence known and then kind of fade into the background. As much fun as that is to watch, and I'm a fan of both of their racing, I'd like to see both of them just like,

don't know, try to do it the serious way and see how fast they can go. neither, and respect to both these athletes, neither have much business leading the group of 203 runners. They should try to sit on them for a while, see if one of them can pop a 205 or 206. That would be a huge jump for both Panning or Albertson. So I don't know, as much as I want to see another Albertson signature race where he takes off at a breakneck pace and probably makes his competitors happy and then...

Katelyn Tocci (40:31.032)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Cyr (40:43.154)
fades off into the background. I'd like to see them race in legit way and see what they can do.

Katelyn Tocci (40:48.186)
Yeah, put together like a real nice strategy there and see how long they can hang on or be in the chase group. And you know, you never know, we've seen some really big surprises sometimes with those chase groups. So it would be great to see something like that.

Michael Doyle (41:00.356)
And I should say just as an update here, did the little last minute check. Caitlin is correct. Late edition, Buranu Lagesse of Ethiopia. 30 years young, won Tokyo in the Tokyo Marathon in 2019 and 2020, and he's finished second in Berlin in 2019 as well.

Alex Cyr (41:08.656)
Ooh. Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (41:09.464)
Yeah!

Michael Doyle (41:24.1)
Last time he raced and finished a marathon was in 2023 in the fall when he ran Amsterdam in 204 and has run, as you said, Caitlin, 202.48 back in Berlin in 2019. He has done Chicago once before. Didn't do super great 2018. So it's been a while, but a super experienced marathon runner with lots of great performances in there. He's got a couple of, got a 203, a couple of 204.

Katelyn Tocci (41:33.498)
Yeah.

Michael Doyle (41:51.427)
three 204s and that 202.48. So he is technically the fastest runner on the start line and a relatively late entrant into the race as well. So he'll be an interesting one to watch. Okay. Let's, we'll do full predictions at the very end. Let's, let's pivot into the women's race. Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (42:14.854)
I'm excited about this women's race because I feel like we've got a faster, more competitive group than we did in Berlin. Going over the both start lists and taking a look at them, we've got some smoking fast runners in this race and I'm really looking forward to seeing it being a more competitive race than we saw in Berlin. Maybe not seeing someone just like pull ahead and take the race on their own for almost, you know, more than half of the race. We've got,

a 214 and there are 215 and other 216. It just seems like they're a lot closer. We've got a lot of much faster runners on the hole than we did when we did in Berlin.

Alex Cyr (42:50.62)
Yeah. I know it's just gonna... Okay, I'll go through a couple of them and maybe you can add... I think this is a tale of three runners, right? You have... The men's field will be fast. The women's field will also be fast, but I feel like there's a bit more story in the women's field because we have a more recurring cast of characters, right? So, to make a bet, is that fair to say that she might be our favorite? She's the eighth fastest marathoner of all time. She won Houston this year.

Michael Doyle (42:50.689)
Yeah, I'll go through. I'm sorry. Go on.

Katelyn Tocci (42:55.279)
Yeah.

Alex Cyr (43:20.316)
won Tokyo a few months later. She's having the year of her life. And she kind of stated that, you know, she's going to dedicate this performance to her former teammate, Kelvin Kipton, right? She's from that training group. I'm expecting a spirited performance from her. And then you have Joycelyn Jepkoski, who let's call a marathon majors expert. She's got four major medals, including gold in New York for from 2019.

gold in London 2021 and also most recently bronze this year in London. So she's our majors expert. Then we have our Chicago expert, Ruth Cep and get itch. Who's the 2021 champion, 2022 champion Chicago. And then last year was the runner up in 2023. So if there's such a thing as figuring out a course, I would say she has it.

Katelyn Tocci (43:56.054)
Mm-hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (44:14.678)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Michael Doyle (44:18.967)
This is tough guys. This is, I think this is going to turn into a really neat race with these three athletes and they are all sort of like still within that kind of like peak of your powers timeframe of their careers. Like it's not like we're looking at somebody who, you know, put up a lot of nice times several years ago and you know,

Katelyn Tocci (44:24.352)
Yeah.

Michael Doyle (44:46.691)
Performance wise in terms of depth chart, you can lie to yourself and say that they're gonna be I think all three of these will be all three of these athletes will be there halfway through I Think it's a tough call to pick who's gonna win this race as you said Kibete Who we've watched really closely in the last year Alex when we've done the live when we've done sort of the live blogging Around Houston, which we did and she set the American soil half

Was it the half marathon record or is it just, yeah, I think so. A half marathon or marathon record. And then she followed that up by just really dominating Tokyo and making the marathon look pretty effortless, all things considered. you know, putting up one of the fastest times of all time in the process. So, we're going to be interested to see, to see what your guys picks are for that. think that's a really tough call. I'm not really sure yet. Apart from that again,

Let's talk about the American field a little bit here. Chicago has done a very good job. Like with the men's field, just letting every American runner that ran the U S Olympic trials know that like it's open season in Chicago. Come to our race, run really fast. We're going to facilitate a really good experience for you, which they do by the way. And so, I mean, there's a massive list of, I'm just like eyeballing this here. There's like 12.

Katelyn Tocci (46:12.576)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (46:15.777)
A dozen or so American runners that ran trials are quality runners that have interesting stories that have something to prove in many instances. I just look at somebody like Emma Bates. didn't end up running the U.S. Olympic trials. She suffered an injury. I believe an injury that was sort of like haunting her from Chicago last year where she ran so well and qualified for the Olympic trials in the first place.

So she's somebody who knows the course really well, knows how to run the race really well, and probably is looking for that performance of her life. And then we have other runners like, hey, Sarah Hall, remember her? She's back at it again. She's a Masters runner at this point. So is she still looking to run close to 220? We'll find out. There's a lot of neat stories here. Are you guys like?

Katelyn Tocci (46:55.2)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (47:14.622)
What's an interesting American storyline you want to pull out of this? Or what do you think the Americans are going to do?

Alex Cyr (47:21.142)
I can't wait to see the American Michael Doyle compete, Kara D'Amato, who's been on the broadcast team in Chicago and now is racing.

Katelyn Tocci (47:30.511)
Mm-hmm. Making a comeback.

Michael Doyle (47:31.572)
has. I was like, where is this going? How is Kira DeMato, how are me and Kira DeMato have anything in common? Okay. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (47:35.17)
Michael, for-

Alex Cyr (47:39.502)
Yeah, you're yeah, no, she's a lot faster. But otherwise, you guys are kind of the same, right? You've done you've done the broadcast for the Toronto Marathon is what I'm is what I'm alluding to in the past. And so Kira DeMato was actually on the broadcast team for the past two years. So in 2021, she was fourth in Chicago, took the mic for the last two years, and then is back on the start line this year. That's pretty cool.

Michael Doyle (47:41.682)
She is, is. Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (47:46.879)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (47:47.538)
Yeah, right.

Katelyn Tocci (47:53.397)
Mm-hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (47:59.711)
That'll be really fun. And I heard that she was, you we did a feature, and we did a feature for us on the coach at Eyestone. And isn't she training with him now? Or most recently she changed over to coach with that Eyestone, I think. So that was just an interesting point to me because we had written some things about him recently and his coaching method that seems pretty amazing.

Michael Doyle (48:18.773)
Betsy Saina as well. mean, she, she, became an American citizen the last few years, originally from Kenya, is a, a six athlete. She was really hyped coming into the U S Olympic trials in March in Orlando and didn't have a great day, but is very quick and, has performed very well on the highest, you know, the biggest stage in Tokyo marathon.

2020 fortunate quite well. she's got a 219 coming into it. I mean, if the top three runners in this race, start playing games and don't go out super duper hard, you never know. But I just had the feeling that this is going to be a fast race, a really, really fast race.

Katelyn Tocci (49:06.453)
Yeah, I think they're just gonna be killing it,

Michael Doyle (49:10.654)
Yeah. OK, guys, so let's get into prediction time. So.

Let's just do winners first. Men's winner. Alex, who do you have?

Alex Cyr (49:24.364)
Ooh, ooh, okay.

Katelyn Tocci (49:26.388)
Okay.

Michael Doyle (49:27.518)
and give us a finishing time as well. I'm gonna write it down.

Katelyn Tocci (49:30.331)
wow. Okay. Me too.

Alex Cyr (49:34.212)
If I go with Ngedic or, you know, if I go with Ngedic, if I go with Caprudo and they win, it's kind of expected. So I'm going to go with my boy, Wolde. I'm going to bet on him to still be around, okay, in the last kilometer or so and then deploy that track speed. And for that to happen, it has to be a somewhat tactical race. Somewhat tactical and Chicago is still quick. He's going to win in 2-0-4.

Michael Doyle (49:46.401)
wow.

Alex Cyr (50:04.035)
55.

Michael Doyle (50:08.934)
204.55 for Mr. Wellday. All right. And then your women's, your women's winner.

Alex Cyr (50:17.026)
Say that three times.

You know what? I'm going to go with my Chicago expert. I'm going to go with Chepin Getich, who time and time again has shown that she knows how to run Chicago. It's possible that Kibere is just too strong, but I'm going for experience over Stat Sheet for now. She already has two wins under her. She got beat last year. She's a little hungry about that, I'm sure. So let's go with Chepin Getich. Hat-trick. Yeah, that's my pick. Wolde and Chepin Getich. Lock it down.

Katelyn Tocci (50:23.028)
Mmm.

Katelyn Tocci (50:39.08)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (50:49.619)
what time you given her.

Alex Cyr (50:50.946)
time. We're going to go with, we're going to, this is going to be fast. think the women's race, one of these races has to be like gut wrenchingly fast. And so I think this is going to be under 215. They're going to go in the 214s, which used to be crazy. Now it's just commonplace. We're going to go 214.37 for Chepin Getich.

Michael Doyle (50:53.949)
out of the air.

Michael Doyle (51:12.671)
You guys want to know a crazy fact about Ruth Chippengetich at the Chicago Marathon?

Katelyn Tocci (51:15.985)
Yes.

Alex Cyr (51:17.59)
Please.

Michael Doyle (51:19.771)
In 2021, she split 67-34 for half and finished in 74-57. So a really brutal fade in the second half, but still won. So she was just hanging on by a thread. In 2022 in Chicago, she ran the second fastest time of all time. She was 14 seconds off of Bridget Koskai's world record at the time. So like just, just missed the world record.

Katelyn Tocci (51:30.546)
Wow.

Wow.

Michael Doyle (51:49.374)
It was a three minute personal best and she split the first half in two 1128 pace at the time.

Alex Cyr (51:59.145)
Whoa. Okay, so she just goes out hard.

Katelyn Tocci (52:01.617)
Yeah, she's a she's a positive splits kind of runner.

Michael Doyle (52:02.461)
she goes out hard.

Alex Cyr (52:05.311)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (52:05.672)
She's a fade from the front girl. That's right. So if there's somebody that's going to come into the what they call the tech meeting, the technical meeting a couple of days before the race, and that's when they have to kind of lay the cards down as elite athletes and they and their managers, their coach, they come into this technical meeting and that's when they have the discussion about, what are the pacing groups going to run at?

Alex Cyr (52:08.001)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (52:28.414)
They've kind of planned a lot of this out beforehand when they've negotiated with the agents as to like, who's coming to this race, what kind of time they're going to run that sort of thing. But that's really like the show the cards moment. it's like, Jeff can get it. She and her, her agent just might roll in and coach might roll in there and just be like two 10 30 pace. That's the opening half. Who's with me.

Katelyn Tocci (52:48.828)
my god.

Alex Cyr (52:49.051)
Well, I mean, well, I mean, look, if if Chapman Gettich has all has already taken out a race at 211 pace, what's to say that she's not going to try it again? There's like this this feeling right or the psychological thing that happens when someone runs 211 others feel like they can go to 11. So I don't know, you might be you might be bang on maybe maybe we're about to see something special.

Michael Doyle (53:04.892)
Yeah, you gotta try.

Michael Doyle (53:11.294)
I also, another fun factoid about her, not to go down the Chepton Gattage rabbit hole here. She's also won the most money in a road running race prize purse ever. She won a quarter of a million dollars winning a marathon, a women's only marathon in Japan a couple of years ago. So she's a big game hunter. She goes for the big prize purse. World record is an extra bonus. U.S. soil record is usually an extra bonus. Like you start adding all the...

Katelyn Tocci (53:34.076)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (53:38.725)
cargo marathon course record extra but like you add all these layers on you're going to get up there and and and and winning so they may go out hard in this one this will be interesting to see caitlin men's men's pick

Katelyn Tocci (53:51.046)
Okay, I'm also, and you could see it because I wrote it down. Okay, I was going with the women's. Okay, the men's pick I'm going with the late entry. I'm gonna go with late guess and I'm going with, okay, I this might sound like, 203.57. I don't think he's gonna be, maybe he won't beat his record from 219. I'm not gonna go so aggressively, but I'm gonna still, a little faster than what Alex had guessed there. And Alex, I'm with you.

Ruth is my pick. You can see it highlighted from the beginning and it's for exactly the same reason. I feel like when you know a course really well, it can absolutely be a bit of an advantage. So if she has a great day, she gets her hat trick. That would be amazing for her. And I did put the tie in a tiny bit faster just because maybe she's like just has this huge desire to break her record. So I put 213.59. So it would be a sub 214.

Michael Doyle (54:43.101)
Okay, guys, here's my picks. I'm going to go Vincent and Gettich, 202.50. Yep. I think these guys are inspired by Kip Doom's, the late great Kip Doom's world record on this course and they're thinking of themselves as a fast course. Let's go out hard. Let's see what happens. I think they'll go out like close to world record pace and then there'll be a bit of a fade, but it still will be a 202.50.

Katelyn Tocci (54:48.252)
Okay. Whoa. Whoa.

Alex Cyr (54:52.072)
okay. Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (55:03.314)
All right.

Michael Doyle (55:13.02)
Then I'm going to go to Tsutume Kibete. Her hot streak will continue. I think after this race, we're going to be like, she's just really good. She's just really good and she knows how to win. I love the way she ran in Tokyo, watched that whole race and I thought she handled herself brilliantly on the big stage and she will run to 1640, but it will be a big positive split because I think they're going to go out.

Fast, fast, fast. I think they're going to go at an under 214 pace for sure. So I think it's just going to be like, my goodness. And the three of them are going to go really hard and then they're going to start to drop in the second half. That's my bold prediction. So none of us have got a world record here, of course. I think we've all listed some pretty fast times, good performances.

Katelyn Tocci (55:43.324)
They're gonna burn out. Okay.

Alex Cyr (56:05.619)
Yeah, I think the Berlin Marathon is going to be watching in full Schadenfreude. Did I pronounce that correctly? You know...

Michael Doyle (56:15.996)
I wish I knew any words in German to congratulate you on pronouncing and using that only German word I know.

Alex Cyr (56:20.408)
no.

Alex Cyr (56:23.827)
the only one I know. You know this one? know that one? Schadenfreude? Schadenfreude. Hoping...

Michael Doyle (56:26.586)
Yeah, Schadenfreude. it's and reveling, hoping or reveling in the failure of others. In this case, I guess it would be hoping or reveling that Chicago isn't as awesome as it was last year.

Alex Cyr (56:32.542)
Yes.

Alex Cyr (56:39.14)
Yeah, because I think there's an opening here, right? We, we in our Berlin preview and also recap, we talked about how Berlin might be losing that title of the fastest marathon on earth, or maybe they're, they're holding on to it pretty thinly. And I mean, if there's one marathon to usurp it, I think it's Chicago, especially after, know, Kip Doom's performance. And did we mention this at the top four, three of the top four women's times ever?

happened in Chicago and happened recently. And so give it another year of really great performances and that narrative gets a little bit more bold, right? It gets bigger that, you know, maybe Chicago is as fast as Berlin. Maybe Chicago is faster than Berlin. Maybe I, as a North American, will just do Chicago instead because why travel and do the jet lag thing if I want to run quickly? So I think after this race, we're going to have to take stock of, you know, which marathons a little bit faster.

I think this might be Chicago's chance to slide in.

Michael Doyle (57:42.491)
World Marathon Majors power rankings for the week of October 7th, 2024. I feel like we're doing like NFL power rankings here because we just did them last week. Do you guys have things moved at all for you? Where are you ranked, Chicago? Where do you got it in the World Marathon Majors?

Alex Cyr (57:55.014)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (58:07.324)
I just, okay, I took a whole new thought process to my ranking, guys. I've revisited it and it's, yes, I did revisit it and I went a little bit more with data this time. So yeah, so well, I think, know, Boston is Boston and it's not just because I'm from Boston, but I think that that's got a really big, please do not think it's just because I'm from Boston. I think Boston always has, you know, holds all the cards because maybe not for the, but people want to run Boston also because you can't just go in and run Boston.

Michael Doyle (58:11.971)
Okay, you've revisited it.

Katelyn Tocci (58:37.33)
work really hard for it and it's not a lottery, you you've to do a time. So like Boston, Boston, I think it stays up there because it's not, you just can't waltz into it. So I was looking at all of the applicants over the last couple of years and how many people, so I think the people have chosen this list for me. So after Boston, the people I think have chosen London. mean, London's number two because London, I mean, we're getting up to like a million, almost 840,000 applicants, right?

So think London is right now the people's marathon. We've got Tokyo came in with 350,000 applicants. So Tokyo switched right up there to number three, as I think it's a pretty big power ranking there. New York had 165,000 applicants. Chicago had 120, 120,000. And Berlin 92,000. So just some food for thought there. So I switched everything around. I did, yeah.

Michael Doyle (59:32.941)
no, that's good. I never, that's clever. That's clever. Just go like by pure supply and demand. It's just, cause they all have, mean, Boston's a little bit of a different beast. As you said, it's like the, there's less entry spots and the demand is smaller, but the demand is more exclusive because like just some people can't qualify cause they just don't have the time, which is, you know, exclusivity to the max. Right. And then you've got.

Katelyn Tocci (59:39.058)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Cyr (59:40.082)
Hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (59:44.034)
Right, yeah.

Michael Doyle (01:00:02.532)
the broad entry, ballot, the, the, the ballot entry, the lottery for all the rest of these races. And if you power rank it by those, like I can see that I can see it. I was surprised by the Tokyo numbers actually.

Katelyn Tocci (01:00:14.956)
Yeah, I thought to look at it like that. Me too, me too. I really was. But I've heard from a bunch of people who have run it here. It was just like spectacular. They loved going to Tokyo.

Michael Doyle (01:00:26.138)
Seir, for your debut marathon, have you moved Chicago up the power rankings?

Alex Cyr (01:00:31.409)
Well, I also propose a paradigm shift. while Caitlin went with data, mine is based on pure vibes. So I divided the six into three categories because I think there's three categories of marathon and which marathon will I do first will depend on the mindset that I'm in. This is what I mean. you have two marath... Okay, this is North American perspective because geographically this kind of matters. there are two...

Katelyn Tocci (01:00:35.549)
Alex Cyr (01:01:00.795)
marathons that are travel races primarily, Tokyo and London. You go there because you expect that you're going to see a show, see something you don't see very much. Even if, you know, London's culture is somewhat similar to ours, the London Marathon itself is a little bit foreign to North America and you just hear good things but you don't know much, whereas Tokyo you're totally immersed into Japanese culture, both of those are predominantly travel races. And if you want an experience, a travel experience, that's what you do.

The second category is the North American Marathoning Experience. These are the ones you do if you want to talk to other runners in North America about the race and have the shared experience. That's Boston and that's New York. Third is the Fast Marathon. Speed. You want to debut. If I were to do a marathon this year, like if my debut was this year, I'm very much thinking about times. I want it to be fast.

Katelyn Tocci (01:01:47.041)
Speed.

Michael Doyle (01:01:50.499)
Just go for the PR.

Katelyn Tocci (01:01:51.502)
Yep.

Alex Cyr (01:02:01.112)
than I look at Berlin or Chicago. I'd be most inclined to do those two. So I didn't really complete the assignment because I don't know how to rank them. It depends on mindset right now. And so I don't think I'll change my previous ranking, which I suppose had Tokyo first. Here's what's happening. I expect that my first marathon will be years into the future. And by then I'll be more likely to want to travel and see the world and to drop something really fast.

If I ask Mr. Strava AI, he'll probably tell me that that's wrong. And when I start the marathon, no matter how old I'll be, I'll still want it to be quick. And so I'll probably end up doing Chicago.

Michael Doyle (01:02:39.321)
That's a very good analysis. yeah, that's good. That's good. That's kind of my approach, my thinking with all of this as well, is like, especially as a, if you're a North American recreational or even, like, like Alex would be sort of a sub elite marathon runner in the future. You know, Chicago, Berlin are kind of your go-to fast races. London, if you can get into it also is quite fast, but

Katelyn Tocci (01:02:41.186)
Like it.

Michael Doyle (01:03:07.961)
Again, you're also thinking like you're to go check out some museums. You want to go on the River Thames. want to go maybe, you know, like you're doing a trip, right?

Then New York is New York. mean, it's its own beast. Boston is Boston as well. You've got your PR and you've got your Boston PR. There's like two separate things in marathon running. yeah, this is my fifth time or will be my fifth time running Chicago. So like maybe Chicago is low on my power rankings because I'm just like, okay, I think I'm take a little break from Chicago after this one for a while. But I always keep coming back to Chicago because

pretty short flight for me. It's not an overwhelming city, but it's an interesting city. There's some neat stuff to do. It's a good art museum. There's some interesting food. There's some good culture. I've got some nice beer. I can go with a group of friends. It's not crazy expensive. It's not as overwhelming as like a trip to London or certainly a trip to Tokyo. It's a little bit more of like a scaled back, like low key.

approach to running a really hard gigantic marathon.

Alex Cyr (01:04:26.78)
So will you like blast Homecoming by Coldplay and Kanye in your headphones when you roll into Chicago? You seem to really love the city.

Michael Doyle (01:04:37.046)
Yes. All right, guys. Final thing. Final thing. Chicago deep dish pizza, underrated, overrated, perfectly rated.

Katelyn Tocci (01:04:38.296)
Ha ha ha ha.

Alex Cyr (01:04:40.028)
you

Michael Doyle (01:04:51.168)
Alex.

Alex Cyr (01:04:51.26)
They teach you in podcast school that the number one rule of podcasting is to be relatable. Be relatable. People will like you. So I'll hit you with this. I don't like pizza. I never have. I don't enjoy pizza. No.

Michael Doyle (01:04:58.392)
Flash got school.

Katelyn Tocci (01:05:05.581)
What?

Michael Doyle (01:05:07.682)
Hold on. Hot take.

Katelyn Tocci (01:05:08.27)
stop, stop. I cannot believe this. It's like saying you don't like chocolate. my.

Michael Doyle (01:05:12.952)
Did you say you don't like pizza? Alex Sear doesn't like oxygen. You don't like pizza. You don't like cheese.

Alex Cyr (01:05:14.948)
I don't... I'm not a fan of cheese. Mm-hmm. I don't like cheese. I don't like cheese. I force myself to eat cheese when I have to, so I don't enjoy pizza.

Katelyn Tocci (01:05:18.848)
Exactly.

Michael Doyle (01:05:23.416)
my, my God. This is a, this is a, we're, we're 65 minutes into podcasting here, Alex, and you're throwing this flame thrower at us. I.

Katelyn Tocci (01:05:25.4)
Wow, this is...

I can't believe this.

Alex Cyr (01:05:32.38)
Just the part that you're gonna cut up into the reel. Actually, if I had to rank them, deep dish would be last because it's like big and thick and a lot of cheese. So, I'm not the right person to ask, but if there's a worse kind of pizza, it's deep dish.

Michael Doyle (01:05:38.603)
A lot of cheese.

Katelyn Tocci (01:05:39.468)
It's a lot of cheese. Yeah. my

Katelyn Tocci (01:05:46.2)
my God, mean pizza, if I could, if I could literally live on pizza, I would choose pizza as my one meal. I'm more, I know maybe for people from Chicago, this isn't going to be also the most likable thing because I would also prefer, what is it, the thin crust pizza and Neapolitan pizza. I actually, have, my husband have one of those.

Michael Doyle (01:05:47.608)
Holy shit, my god, I need like, just one meal? Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (01:06:10.284)
pizza ovens. literally make, you I make the dough, you know, for my grandma's recipe from like a million years ago. We like, it's a big thing. We invite all our friends over and the pizza oven gets to like exaggerate a million degrees. can't even like, you could like literally lose your eyebrows putting that pizza in and out of there. And literally would make it like once a week if I could and eat it every day. So, but Alex and I, were like polar opposites about pizza, but I'm a thin crust kind of girl.

Michael Doyle (01:06:12.162)
Yes.

Michael Doyle (01:06:41.016)
Cheese is one of those things that defines humanity, It's like we crawled out of the caves and figured out how to make cheese and then that turned us into humans. It's like modernity.

Katelyn Tocci (01:06:43.765)
Yeah.

Alex Cyr (01:06:51.302)
I feel like more and more people are not able to metabolize cheese. think we're, we are actually evolving away from cheese.

Michael Doyle (01:06:56.373)
fair enough, fair enough.

Katelyn Tocci (01:06:57.139)
Lactide.

Lactaid, lactaid, just pop a pill.

Michael Doyle (01:07:02.68)
falling away from cheese. like it. like it. Okay. So, yeah, you know, I'm tempted to say, I'm tempted to say deep dish pizza is overrated because whenever I go to Chicago and I'm with a group of people, you know, I've been, this will be five times I've gone to this race. And it just feels like invariably after the race at some point, after a few adult beverages in celebration of finishing a job well done, someone is like, let's go get deep dish pizza. And,

Katelyn Tocci (01:07:07.107)
Ha ha.

Katelyn Tocci (01:07:31.178)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Doyle (01:07:32.535)
Apparently the place to go is Pequod's. I'm pronouncing that correctly. The name of the, shout out to Pequod's. The name of the boat in Moby Dick, if I'm not mistaken. Apparently that's the shit. That's the deep joint in Chicago. Although I imagine there's probably some debate as there is with any local delicacy. But like you end up with this like,

Katelyn Tocci (01:07:37.451)
You

Michael Doyle (01:08:01.814)
Like literally it's like eating a piece of cheese and lava hot tomato sauce pie and the crust kind of tastes like pie crust I find. And I find like I don't actually don't actually want to eat the whole slice of pizza. I got halfway through. I'm kind of disgusted with myself. So it's sort of stunt eating, right? It's stunt eating. But I'd rather that than a Chicago dog. That's for damn sure. So there we go.

Katelyn Tocci (01:08:03.019)
It's like pie.

Katelyn Tocci (01:08:13.619)
Yeah, that pie crust.

Katelyn Tocci (01:08:22.473)
The pro- yeah.

Alex Cyr (01:08:31.103)
Yeah

Michael Doyle (01:08:31.828)
I need ketchup on my hot dog, guys. I need it. I have to have it. Okay. All right. So this is our Chicago preview. think we've broken the tape. We've done it.

Katelyn Tocci (01:08:33.055)
Yeah, I need ketchup too.

Alex Cyr (01:08:42.775)
And if nothing else, we've grossed you out.

Michael Doyle (01:08:44.938)
Yeah, yeah, and apology by the fact that Alex doesn't eat pizza. He's alien.

Katelyn Tocci (01:08:51.359)
That will be the only thing in the comments. It will be like, what, Alex doesn't eat pizza?

Michael Doyle (01:08:53.984)
just like this, this man is a monster. can't listen to this pod anymore. I don't believe he's human. I like, if there was like, okay, if I'm like, I'm like, I can't get over this here. If I'm like paddling along and there's like two, two islands and I've been at sea, the P quad got sunk and I'm like trying to escape Moby Dick and there's two islands and there's one island that's got like fruits and vegetables and everything. The other island is just some dude smoking a cigarette with a

Alex Cyr (01:08:56.961)
Open fire.

Katelyn Tocci (01:09:01.083)
you

Michael Doyle (01:09:23.7)
with a pizza oven and it's all pizza Island. I'm going to pizza Island, man. I'm not going to that. The other. Fuck that. Come on. Go to pizza Island.

Alex Cyr (01:09:31.001)
Pizza Island sounds awful. No, I won't make it. Yeah, I'll be eating pineapples across the the lake.

Katelyn Tocci (01:09:32.363)
Michael Doyle (01:09:37.236)
like Alex's nightmare, Pizza Island.

Katelyn Tocci (01:09:39.278)
my goodness.

Michael Doyle (01:09:42.674)
Yeah, you'll be, you'll be getting fit running, running intervals around a healthful Island. all right guys. One programming note. we're going to be doing a Chicago instant reaction podcast. I believe this will be Alex here and I duo wing this one. and I will still be sitting in a salty sweaty singlet and

Alex Cyr (01:09:48.089)
Mmm.

Michael Doyle (01:10:12.616)
and heft tights and super shoes TBD. don't know. Alex is working on some magic here. We're not sure if it's going to happen or not. Got a backup pair just in case.

Katelyn Tocci (01:10:24.575)
Okay. great. You're going to try some new shoes the day of a race. Great. Coach Caitlin, coach Caitlin just like chiming in like.

Michael Doyle (01:10:27.796)
You got it. Don't do anything new except for the shoes.

Alex Cyr (01:10:29.593)
Hahaha!

Michael Doyle (01:10:33.991)
It's like fucking idiots. Okay.

Alex Cyr (01:10:35.713)
I Ashley in intelligence also would say no to that.

Michael Doyle (01:10:38.582)
Michael, you are a fucking idiot. okay.

Michael Doyle (01:10:46.528)
positive split in your future in Chicago. okay. So I am going to pod with Alex. We're going to do an instant reaction podcast. It's going to be fun for me as it always is to have like run the race and not actually seen it. So Alex will be telling me for the first time, presumably right after the race, what actually happened at the front. And I will be telling him what I experienced on course. Hopefully it will be good things. Hopefully it will.

Katelyn Tocci (01:11:14.525)
In the chase group, right, Michael? You're gonna be in the chase. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Michael Doyle (01:11:17.14)
That's right in the in the large 49,800 900 person chase group. I will be among them. Hopefully I don't do too many stops at the P quad for deep dish and beverages along the way. Wish me luck guys until until next week. Thank you for potting with me. We'll talk to next week.

Katelyn Tocci (01:11:23.218)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (01:11:36.085)
Good luck, Michael.