Our 2024 Berlin Marathon Preview!

Our editors Alex, Katelyn and Michael break down everything you need to know about this Sunday's Berlin Marathon, including how to live stream the race, key storylines, a bit of the fascinating history of the marathon, and who will win each race. They discuss the significance of the 50th anniversary of the Berlin Marathon, its ranking as a World Marathon Major, why so many marathon world records have been achieved on this course, and the legacy of both Eliud Kipchoge and Kenenisa Bekele at the race. 2024 marks the first time in 11 years that the Berlin Marathon will not feature either Kipchoge (the 2022 and 2023 champion) or Bekele.

After last year's world record performance in Berlin by Tigst Assefa, will the 2024 edition of the marathon feature a new breakout star and a record breaking run? Our editors weigh in on who might win in Berlin, and the outlook of elite marathon running in the next few years.

00:00 Opening chatter
02:57 Alex's attempt at a sub-30 minute 10K
06:08 Our favorite city running experiences
08:46 The Significance of Major Marathons
11:45 Berlin Marathon Overview
15:03 Is the Berlin Marathon Course Fast?
17:59 Berlin has a Rollerblade Marathon?!?!
23:52 Historical Context of the Berlin Marathon
26:57 Course Profile and Challenges
30:01 Elite Field Insights
39:46 Emerging Stars in Women's Marathon
51:01 Weather and Conditions
52:13 The End of the Kipchoge Era
01:07:41 We Rank the World Marathon Majors

Watch a full video version of this podcast on our YouTube channel:
https://youtu.be/Nih6qNESz44

Show Notes:

2024 Berlin Marathon Elite Preview:
https://marathonhandbook.com/2024-berlin-marathon-elite-lineup/

Our free marathon training plans:
https://marathonhandbook.com/trainingplans/marathon-training-plans/

Hosts: Katelyn Tocci, Michael Doyle

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Transcript

Michael Doyle (00:03.532)
All right. I'm joined by Alex Sear, our senior editor, editor at large, globe trotting editor. Get into that in a second. And Caitlin Tossie, our managing editor located in Costa Rica, but soon to be traveling for races yourself. Guys, this is going to be our Berlin marathon mega preview pod. Just a TM to that one there.

Alex Cyr (00:11.499)
Mm.

Katelyn Tocci (00:21.296)
Yup.

Michael Doyle (00:33.111)
We're going to get into everything you need to know about the Berlin Marathon from the perspective of our listener of, of a typical runner out there. We're going to break down why Berlin special. What's the deal with the course? Why is it so fast or is it so fast? This year's elite field, a little bit about the history of the race and, whether or not we've ever run Berlin or want to run Berlin. I think the answer is probably.

a yes in terms of wanting to run it. Spoiler alert. before we get into that, Caitlin, let's, let's turn the spotlight on Alex again, just briefly. Cause Mr. Sear, you ran, you traveled many time zones across the great, Northern land of Canada from Toronto to Vancouver. And you ran a 10 K last weekend and Caitlin and I have been dying to talk to you about.

Katelyn Tocci (01:28.866)
Yes. We wanna know.

Michael Doyle (01:31.596)
How'd it go?

Alex Cyr (01:33.302)
It went fine. No, you know what? You know what's weird is I gave myself this like super public goal this time, I think probably through this channel and other places that I want to break 30 before I turn 30. And I have 11 months to go. Okay, I turn 30 next August. So I think. Yeah, are you jealous? That's how.

Katelyn Tocci (01:35.279)
Ha ha ha ha.

Michael Doyle (01:35.569)
boy.

Michael Doyle (01:53.825)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (01:53.947)
jeez. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (01:59.061)
That's how I think I define my like, okay, if I break 30, I'll be successful in this race. And I think that was a mistake. So I get there and I think I'm ranked like ninth in the field. And I think, okay, a top 10 performance would be good. In my head, I'm thinking there are a lot of people faster than me. If I go under 30, I can chase people under 30 and it should be fine. Fast forward to the race. I'm running pretty comfortably in fifth slash sixth.

place with another Canadian athlete and I run with him for the first 7k. There's a big hill at five. We managed to go over the hill together. I split 5k at around 15 minutes, stay on pace until after the hill and then the wheels come off a little in kilometers six and seven. And then I managed to tie it together and finish in 30, 25. So I missed my goal by about 25 seconds. I finished sixth overall.

Michael Doyle (02:53.932)
Still really good.

Katelyn Tocci (02:54.851)
So fast.

Alex Cyr (02:57.204)
as opposed to my ranking of ninth. And I see a Canadian Olympian finish. Like he's within eye shot of me. So I think back to the race and I'm like, this was an absolute success. But because I had tied it to that sub -30 goal, there's like this feeling that, you missed your goal. But yeah, after talking to the other athletes after the race, they were like, sub -30 for someone who's never broken 30 in this race on a pretty tough course was pretty rich.

Katelyn Tocci (03:11.844)
Yeah.

Alex Cyr (03:27.079)
So no, I leave with my head held high. mean, I don't know. I just got to find another 10K. And I think I need to research these 10Ks a bit more because if I have just a total time goal, I need to go for a race that's totally flat. This was more of a, this race had character. There were two hills.

Michael Doyle (03:42.379)
character.

Katelyn Tocci (03:43.816)
It's a nice way to put it. It was hilly.

Alex Cyr (03:45.948)
It was silly. It's a super well organized race and it's a well known race in Vancouver, Eastside 10K. But it's not the race that you go to to run your absolute fastest 10K. I mean, if anything, you go on a track if that's what you want to do. But it was cool to mix it up. mean, you if you're not Canadian, you might not appreciate this so much, but Canada is a big country, right? And if you want to race against the best in the country, you have to displace yourself a little. Not everyone is based in Toronto. So

Katelyn Tocci (03:55.276)
Okay.

Alex Cyr (04:12.968)
To get some FaceTime with some of Vancouver's best runners was pretty cool. It's not something I've gotten to do much. I've never raced in Vancouver. no, was a total plus. I was happy with it. Thank you.

Katelyn Tocci (04:22.925)
Congratulations. That's awesome. Yeah.

Michael Doyle (04:26.614)
Caitlin, when I was trying to track his, his performance live, I found the race website. I found the live race results. And there was a section it was like splits, like five K split and whatever. And then there was a section called kill the hill. There was a split called kill the hill. And I texted Alex's coach, John, and I was like, what's the deal with the kill the hill split? And he's like, yeah, there's, there's a, there's a hill in the race. yeah. So.

Katelyn Tocci (04:42.883)
Ha

Katelyn Tocci (04:53.143)
is a pretty big hill. Is it a segment, a drama segment as well, Alex, or no? The kill the hill.

Alex Cyr (04:54.268)
you

Michael Doyle (04:58.058)
It is now.

Alex Cyr (04:58.251)
I don't know, it probably is now, but yeah, you can win a prize by killing the hill. someone who was, the guy who won was not in the elite field at all. It was like someone who came there and saved everything for the hill. Like that's usually how it happens. But yeah, when I finished the race, I checked my phone and the first two texts were one from my coach John and then another from Michael who says, the hill is never a good sign if you're trying to run fast.

Katelyn Tocci (05:03.641)
Katelyn Tocci (05:25.783)
you

Michael Doyle (05:28.011)
Speaking of text, do you get texts after a race if you obviously put your, you kind of stuck your neck out there with the sub 30 claim? Did you just get a lot of people that were like, you know, it was like a quiet, like a small death, like, sorry, Alex, just really, really sorry about today. Are you okay? How you do it? How you holding up?

Alex Cyr (05:46.585)
Yeah, a couple like through through Instagram and through texts and Yeah, you know cuz cuz I think there is this idea that you put everything out there for and this is like your big goal of the year But yeah, I don't know. It just wasn't like that. I think My big goal is to run half. So I answer these people as you know, it's thank you for your concern, know, but but not I Think now it was positive. It was positive. But yeah a lot of messages. It's making me

Katelyn Tocci (06:08.084)
Ha ha.

Alex Cyr (06:15.347)
think again about how public I've been about this goal of breaking 30 because I assume that as I get closer to the age barrier, there's going to be a lot more pressure. there might, there's a 10k in November near Toronto that I'm like loosely eyeing, but a lot has to happen before then. including this half marathon. So we'll see.

Katelyn Tocci (06:25.526)
A bit of pressure.

Katelyn Tocci (06:32.482)
You

Michael Doyle (06:37.77)
Alex's bedroom wall is going to turn into something similar to like the serial killer in like the movie Seven, where you go in and the entire wall is covered with like 10Ks all around North America that he's plotted out with various personal notes. Yeah, now you got 11 months, buddy. We're rooting for you. We're going to track the progress. Let's watch.

Katelyn Tocci (06:50.732)
Ha ha ha

Katelyn Tocci (06:58.776)
Absolutely.

If you need a pacer, you can just give me a call.

Alex Cyr (07:05.436)
Please.

Michael Doyle (07:05.609)
I'll pay I'll pace you for 500 meters. No problem. Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (07:07.892)
Exactly, not even that.

Alex Cyr (07:09.139)
You guys bring your roller blades or?

Katelyn Tocci (07:13.291)
segue later on. Speaking of roller blades.

Michael Doyle (07:13.578)
Speaking of rollerblades, the Berlin Marathon, if you like racing and rollerblades, the Berlin Marathon has got you covered. We'll talk about that in a second. Yeah, let's pivot right into that. I think my pivot was going to be, we'll still do this anyway, is you went out to Vancouver. Vancouver is an awesome city for running. The Vancouver Marathon is a really challenging marathon, but quite a beautiful race where they really kind of...

Katelyn Tocci (07:23.137)
Yeah, it's very cool.

Michael Doyle (07:42.621)
focus on running experience, running through all the various neighborhoods, running the seawall, which is kind of one of the, I guess, crown jewels of running in Canada, perhaps even North America. Got me thinking guys, because we're going to talk all about Berlin in a couple seconds here, but these world marathon major races in particular, I think they're special because they're basically clearing out a world -class city for you.

to run through for 42 .2 kilometers, 26 miles, right? Which is kind of a wild thing to think about, especially when you think about races like a New Yorker or a London, right? And Berlin as well. So it got me thinking, what's the coolest city run you've ever done?

Katelyn Tocci (08:14.166)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (08:30.918)
run city run

Michael Doyle (08:32.783)
city run. It's got to be a city run because a world marathon major is not going to be in a rural environment, which is kind of too bad because I think maybe some of the best runs in the world are not necessarily in cities, but a neat city run.

Katelyn Tocci (08:40.821)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (08:46.274)
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, and I'd like to, I feel like when I go on vacation or something like that, I love to explore cities by running, but the roads haven't been closed per se if I've done that, because maybe I haven't run, you know, lot of marathons where the roads have been closed off, but I would say like when I traveled to Italy and I would, you know, run Rome and run like all, I mean, running through these cities to get to know them is obviously amazing. The road marathons that I've done,

was, let me see, Twin Cities in Minnesota. And that was a beautiful race because it was actually very suburban as well. Like you didn't just run in the city and it was really nice having those like winding roads and hills. It was actually a pretty hilly race and seeing like the suburbs and having this really beautiful road race. But I would say, you know, running on vacation has kind of been the best way to get to see cities and not, it doesn't have to specifically be a race for me.

And it transfers the same with, you know, trail running as well, that you get to see so many places that you wouldn't be able to see if you weren't doing that race or running that race. For example, those who have come to do the coastal challenge in Costa Rica, like you'll see the entire southern jungles and beaches of Costa Rica that you have to get to by boat to then run them. Yeah, it's super cool. And so I feel like that can also transfer into, you know, seeing cities that you wouldn't see.

Michael Doyle (10:07.028)
cool.

Katelyn Tocci (10:13.173)
or that you, as you're mentioning, Michael, you would see them like shut down. I think that that's amazing. And that's what I want to experience by starting to run the majors is to be able to see a New York like feel completely shut down and no cars on the roads or, you know, a Boston, my hometown like that as well. But what about you, Alex? Yeah.

Michael Doyle (10:32.209)
Yes, Caitlin, Caitlin wants to run down Boylston and have it all to herself with maybe a few other runners around you. my wait, guys. Did you run, you ran under six, whatever, whatever minutes for your qualification time, Caitlin, for Boston this year. So you're, you're, you're in, right? You're in.

Katelyn Tocci (10:37.416)
All to myself.

Katelyn Tocci (10:41.78)
Yeah, exactly.

Katelyn Tocci (10:52.158)
Yes. I haven't received it yet, but they sent us an email that said we would hear by the end of the week if we got accepted. So I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting for the email. I hope so because I'm getting really excited about it. I'm starting to plan and I really hope I get in. But yeah, we're going to hear by the end of the week.

Alex Cyr (11:00.546)
Okay.

Michael Doyle (11:01.746)
That's nice.

Michael Doyle (11:12.559)
Alex Sear, best city running experience. Doesn't have to be a race, of course.

Katelyn Tocci (11:17.065)
Okay.

Alex Cyr (11:18.576)
Okay, I know I mentioned my favorite one, which was running through Reykjavik, Iceland at five in the morning when the sun was up because it was May and they were in their long days. And no one was awake because their work day, it was a weekday and their work day probably started at eight or so. And so I was completely by myself running through the city. I know I've mentioned it. So I'll mention my second favorite one. I was in Lyon, France last year. It was also May and

I don't know if you've ever been to Lyon, but it's a very hilly city. It's like one of these like standard European cities that seems to be built on a bit of a bit of it's not a mountain, but it's a hill. And so to get to any nice running route, you need to walk down the hill. After a few days of running into like the park, which is called Pâques de la Tête d 'Or, Golden Head Park. After a couple of days of that, I was like, okay, I want to challenge myself differently. So I made myself a route.

that went from the top of the Lyon hill down to the park and back without using stairs, because there are many stairs, because most people have to go down this hill. So it was a type of serpentine route that took me from my Airbnb to the park and back. I remember I was coming off an injury. So it also just served as like a weirdly, highly conditioning hill workout of an easy run that I did a couple of times. And it was pretty cool.

That's probably my number two. And same thing, just a great way to get to know the city. My sense of direction, like sucks. It's really not good. But when I run, something clicks and I start to understand the landscape. So that's actually how I got to know how to get around Lyon.

Katelyn Tocci (12:47.733)
Yeah.

Michael Doyle (12:59.29)
survival instinct kicks in.

Katelyn Tocci (13:00.615)
I always need backtrack. I always need backtrack on the watch. never know where I am. But what about you, Michael?

Alex Cyr (13:01.273)
Possibly.

Michael Doyle (13:07.879)
I'm to go chalk here. This is kind of a boring pick, but it's just, it, it, it's the reason why everyone wants to do it. The New York city marathon. What a crazy, wonderful experience that is like New York is nuts. Manhattan is always packed running in Manhattan sucks. If you're not, if it's not a marathon race weekend or, or the New York city half is pretty good too, but actually getting to run the five boroughs and.

covering the areas you cover. And it's just incredible. It's just the best marathon. Now was in London to cover the race and watch my wife run in the spring. And she had very, very positive things to say about London. And I think she was sort of swayed by that as maybe the best marathon she's ever run before. And she's done New York. She's done quite bit. She's Berlin. She's done them all, think. And save for Tokyo. So.

TBD on London and I liked running around London, but running around a major city is really tough when the roads aren't closed down for you. I would say this is like the most like no shit thing ever for me to recommend to people, but New York City Marathon. into that. Stuff that ballot. Get into the marathon if you can. It's worth doing. It's incredible. All right, let's pivot right into...

Katelyn Tocci (14:11.72)
Yep.

Michael Doyle (14:33.222)
it right into the marathon major in question that's coming up this weekend. Okay, we're recording on Tuesday. Berlin is this Sunday, September 29th. Race starts at 8 .50 a local time is the starting gun for the elites. And then the mass fields start at around 9 .15. And there's like, I think there's four waves that go out between 9 .15 and 10 .30. So if you know...

If know somebody running the race, got to figure out exactly when they start. Going to be streamed on Flow Sports, so Flowtrack in Canada, the United States, the UK, and a couple of different territories as well. So you need that subscription to watch it, to watch the Elite Race, which kind of sucks, but it's sort of par for the course these days. Pretty expensive subscription as well. But we'll be watching it. We're going to do a live instant react, not a live, we're going to do an instant.

Don't worry guys, not doing the 3am live instant reaction pod. We'll do one at some point in the morning and then pump it out. Mid morning, middle of the day, Eastern time on Sunday with our thoughts on the performances and on the overall experience of the race. This year's a big year. 50th anniversary.

Katelyn Tocci (15:34.01)
One in the morning again.

Michael Doyle (16:01.797)
So this bad boy started back in 1974. None of us were alive in 1974.

Alex Cyr (16:10.207)
really? You guys were kicking around?

Michael Doyle (16:13.253)
I was a 12 year old boy in 1974. An interest in cross country running. No.

Katelyn Tocci (16:24.575)
No Alex, we were not. I know he sees us as know grandparents but we were not Alex.

Alex Cyr (16:29.461)
It's my favorite lame bit. Yeah, keep going. It's a how old are you guys anyways? Yes.

Michael Doyle (16:32.454)
Is the Alex is so young and Michael and Caitlin are so old. Yeah. So back in 74, a running nerd who is apparently a Baker just decided to start a marathon. it was like, I, you know, like many of these other marathon majors, super small field. I think it was, I got the numbers here. It was like 200 and change runners, I think.

Katelyn Tocci (16:34.459)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (16:55.763)
Yeah, I think 244 finished. It started with a little bit more and 244 ended up finishing.

Michael Doyle (17:01.189)
10 women finished the race. A little bit of a weird gender bias there, which actually remains. I was surprised to see this, but it's still sort of 70, 30 men, finishers in this race, which kind of sucks, but just the way things are in Berlin, I guess. And it's grown, obviously, substantially. This year is the 50th anniversary.

Katelyn Tocci (17:02.384)
Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Doyle (17:29.125)
because they missed the COVID year. So this is actually the true blue 50th running of the Berlin Marathon. And they've like expanded the field quite a bit. Usually there's like 35, 40 ,000 people. This time around, I think they're aiming to hit 50 ,000 plus runners, which would make it one of very few races globally that is that big. I'm just thinking off the top of my head, like New York is that big annually. London was that big this year for the first time over 50 ,000 people.

Katelyn Tocci (17:58.524)
Mm

Michael Doyle (17:59.429)
Paris has hit 50 ,000 people, I think a couple of times. I don't think Valencia has scratched 50 yet. And Chicago doesn't either. Chicago is usually sort of in the forties. So no. Yeah, that's locked into around 30 ,000. I think the one year of their hundredth anniversary, they expanded it out to 40 or 45 ,000, but they've never gone to 50. Having run Boston, you just like.

Katelyn Tocci (18:11.61)
And Boston doesn't either, right? I it's on the smaller side, right? Much smaller side.

Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (18:23.43)
Mm -hmm. No.

Michael Doyle (18:27.877)
can't imagine 50 ,000 people running down that course because it's like a country road, right? So I have been told that Berlin is a pretty congested race because it starts right at the Brandenburg Gate, right at the sort of in the heart of the city. And it's a pretty jam -packed start, I think, for the mass start. So 50 ,000 plus people is going to be a

Katelyn Tocci (18:31.994)
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Michael Doyle (18:55.2)
a heck of an experience for runners.

Michael Doyle (19:00.772)
You guys know, you guys know about the roller blade event. Let's talk about rollerblading. So on the Saturday, so on the Saturday, there's a rollerblading marathon and it's been going on since 1997. That's weird. I imagine, I imagine rollerblade racing was a big deal in the late 1990s. Alex, you ever owned a pair of rollerblades?

Katelyn Tocci (19:07.918)
boy. Who roller bladed? Who roller bladed?

Katelyn Tocci (19:16.182)
Mm -hmm

Katelyn Tocci (19:19.985)
1997.

Alex Cyr (19:28.701)
Yeah, I used to be a hockey player. And so in the summer, that was my cross training. But I've never like rollerblade raced. Like in my head, there's no other way it could be than a derby, like a like a full contact derby.

Michael Doyle (19:31.239)
Mmm.

Katelyn Tocci (19:33.775)
Michael Doyle (19:43.801)
I'm pretty sure they put out like the hay bales and and that sort of stuff for this rate for for the Saturday event Like I think there are crashes

Alex Cyr (19:49.631)
So can you like, can you like check people? Is there, are you allowed physical contact? I feel like the answer is no.

Katelyn Tocci (19:55.823)
I would say no, no, I would definitely say no.

Michael Doyle (19:57.795)
I would say a hard no on that one.

Alex Cyr (20:00.063)
Hahahaha

Michael Doyle (20:03.07)
Yeah, but I think there probably are some spills. It's fast. Just take a quick guess. What's the course record for the Berlin rollerblade marathon? I believe they call it inline skating.

Katelyn Tocci (20:20.369)
I think I would be cheating a little bit because I remember reading about it. I think it's somewhere around 50, 59, like just under an hour. Is it under an hour? Yeah.

Alex Cyr (20:27.883)
I would say an hour, because I feel like when I was rollerblading and running, my rollerblading was around twice as fast as my running. So I take the record and split it in half. So one hour. One hour for the men, one hour five for the women.

Katelyn Tocci (20:36.458)
there you go. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Michael Doyle (20:44.227)
It's $56 .49 for the men, $106 .35 for the women.

Katelyn Tocci (20:46.531)
Okay. Okay. All right.

Alex Cyr (20:49.459)
Okay. Okay.

Michael Doyle (20:50.583)
So unfortunately, Eliud Kipchoge, who we'll talk about in a bit, we'll talk a lot about Eliud in a bit, he cannot transition into his next life as a breaking one rollerblader in Berlin. That's not going to happen because it's already been done.

Katelyn Tocci (21:06.961)
because it's already happened. Guys, I remember roller skating in a roller skating rink, definitely ice skating in an ice skating rink, and rollerblading like from my house to the neighborhood kids' houses. And that's like how my brother and I got around around rollerblades when we were kids. Is it? Is it?

Michael Doyle (21:13.44)
What?

Alex Cyr (21:24.52)
It's coming back. There's people, there, yep. There are some people in Toronto who run their errands by rollerblading. I see one every few days.

Michael Doyle (21:26.176)
No, no, no.

Michael Doyle (21:34.327)
Damn you, Gen Z, damn you. Gen Z's taking it too far. Rollerblading is the, that's the line, that's the line that they've crossed in sort of assuming all of our 90s nostalgic crap pop cultural references. Like, okay, I'm fine with the Nirvana t -shirts, but rollerblading is a bridge too far in my opinion.

Katelyn Tocci (22:00.922)
You

Alex Cyr (22:01.172)
Would you be happier with skateboards?

Michael Doyle (22:04.65)
Of course I'd be happier with skateboarding never went away Alex. It never went away. It's been it's. It is harder, although rollerblading is awkward.

Katelyn Tocci (22:05.257)
Mm. Mm

Alex Cyr (22:08.798)
But it's harder. It's harder to do. I can't skateboard well. But skateboarding's a lot harder. I think, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I struggle to stand up on a skateboard.

Katelyn Tocci (22:11.984)
That's true.

Michael Doyle (22:16.586)
Yes, it is.

Katelyn Tocci (22:22.977)
haha

Michael Doyle (22:24.706)
I think, I think 1997 was sort of peak rollerblading and it's just like the most Euro thing ever. just never went away in Berlin. It's it, they do this race every single year and you probably won't be surprised, surprised to learn that it's won every year by like Olympic speed skaters who are rollerblade racing or inline skate racing in the off season. Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (22:44.931)
huh, right.

Alex Cyr (22:47.354)
I am surprised. I would have guessed that it wouldn't attract elite athletes because it's now so niche. That's kind of cool.

Katelyn Tocci (22:48.304)
Mm

Michael Doyle (22:56.065)
Okay, so let's pivot away from rollerblading, because I'm sure this is the content that all of our listeners have come to hear is the rollerblade element of the Berlin Marathon. And let's pivot right into American football in Germany. a natural, a natural pivot. Another weird factoid about this race is it's owned not by a company per se, but by a, and this is another very German thing, it's owned by a sports club. So a club.

Katelyn Tocci (23:04.099)
Ha ha.

Katelyn Tocci (23:25.392)
Okay.

Michael Doyle (23:25.95)
a company called or a club called SCC Berlin, which has a like a, like a soccer team, like a soccer club that you can join with various tiers. was in the Bundesliga, the elite league of soccer in Germany for a while. think it's been relegated though. And they also own an American football team called the Berlin rebels. just went, I went down a weird.

Katelyn Tocci (23:51.584)
Okay.

Michael Doyle (23:52.898)
I went down a weird German foot like American football in Germany, rabbit hole, researching for this pod. Congratulations to the Potsdam Royals for winning the, the German bowl in 2023 new seasons coming up guys, very excited about this. may have to VPN in to watch some German American football. So that's that that's another weird element of this race. and let's talk a little bit about this race is as, as a

world record course. Because I think when I ask you guys Berlin Marathon first reaction, my answer is super duper fast, right? My answer is world records. You guys feel anything else? Is there any other? We do a mood board for the Berlin Marathon. What's the first thing that comes to mind? Mine is like a picture of Eli Kipchoge setting the world record a bunch of times.

Katelyn Tocci (24:36.461)
Yep. Exactly.

Alex Cyr (24:48.209)
Yeah, no, it's that for me. I found a stat that said that the last eight men's world records prior to Kelvin Kipton breaking in Chicago last October happened in Berlin, which like I had to fact check that because I was like, there's no way. But then you go back and back in time and yeah, yeah, it's I think it's almost overshadowed anything else about it. The only thing I think about when I think about Berlin is it's fast.

Katelyn Tocci (25:01.508)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (25:15.208)
Yeah, I think that's what we all have, you know, in our minds. And the Women's World record from last year, it just hasn't even been close. Like, no one has even been close to it. So, I mean, yeah, when I think of Berlin, I think of F .A .T. as well.

Alex Cyr (25:23.273)
Mm

Michael Doyle (25:29.216)
If you can run, if, if, if the women's world record can be run in two 11 in Berlin, I don't care what anyone's argument is. It is fast because that's the, I've said this in the pod before and I stand by it. Show me a world record in any sport. That's right now. That's more impressive than that. And I think that Tigus Decepho, who set the world record last year in Berlin has a real argument for the wildest.

sporting performance and history on that course. Yeah. So Alex, nine men's world records, and four women's world records have been set on the Berlin course, including that world record from last year and four of the top 10 men's all time marathon performances on this course. Interestingly, only one of the women's top 10. And that is of course the world record. So

Katelyn Tocci (25:58.776)
Mm

Michael Doyle (26:26.656)
still a very fast course, you can see how they construct the men's and the women's elite fields. Like 13 of the top 50 all -time times men's are from Berlin, but only six of the top 50 on the women's side, which is kind of interesting.

Alex Cyr (26:43.056)
Yeah, it seems like it's less of a destination for women across the board and that would take more researching to find out why, but it's kind of strange.

Michael Doyle (26:51.57)
Indeed, indeed. Okay, so the course itself.

Michael Doyle (26:57.452)
not to go down the rabbit hole of like a history geography lesson here, but basically, basically the, the course is really intelligently constructed because you can put a pin right in the center of Berlin and the Brandenburg gate, which is like literally the old timey entry point of old Berlin is this gate, 19th century gate that was built big stone column gate.

very iconic and, in, European history. And then the Berlin marathon itself is just sort of like a giant squiggly circle that goes around the city. Does a big tour of the city and ends up back. And you actually get to run through the gate, which is super cool. And, this race know a little bit about recent 20th century history.

Katelyn Tocci (27:45.57)
Yeah.

Michael Doyle (27:53.407)
So this race started in 74. So that means that this race took place for many years during the cold war and the Brandenburg gate actually had the Berlin wall like blow right by it. Like, so in 87, when Caitlin and I were both in our thirties, and we're watching Ronald Reagan give the famous speech in front of the Berlin wall. He's actually the, the,

Katelyn Tocci (28:11.851)
Ha ha!

haha

Michael Doyle (28:21.05)
Brandenburg Gate is behind him and then the Berlin Wall is right behind the gate. And he's saying, know, Mr. Gorbachev, you know, break down this wall, you know, like pull the famous like bring down this wall speech that sort of precipitated the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall. Like that's it. It's right there. Like when you're standing in the starting area, waiting for that race to go, you're like right at the center of a lot of really important moments in 20th century history.

Another question.

Katelyn Tocci (28:51.211)
I think that's something that would really draw me to that race would be the history because I love history. I love world history. So think that would be something super cool for me. Not even just thinking about the race and a fast course and the marathon part, but to go to Berlin and to actually just be part of that and standing there. I think that would be amazing.

Alex Cyr (29:08.936)
Yeah, same here. I don't know what it is, and I think this has gotten attention in mainstream media in the last year for some weird reason, but I think there's a point in time where men start to think about history. They talk about the Roman Empire. Like, they write about how men in their 30s and 40s think about the Roman Empire once a day. Now, I'm not yet 30, and I don't...

Michael Doyle (29:30.878)
I don't think I think about the Roman Empire once a day. Maybe I'm behind me. I to start thinking about it twice a day now to catch up.

Alex Cyr (29:39.749)
You do need to catch up. Yeah, and I don't know, my inkling is not that, or my instinct is not that, but mine is Nazi Germany for some reason. I think about it once a week in the context of how the heck does that happen. Yeah, I don't know, this started like last...

Michael Doyle (29:52.146)
Whoa, okay.

Michael Doyle (29:59.262)
and the condo okay that's fair but once a week that's a high frequency

Alex Cyr (30:05.017)
Yeah, yeah. This started about six months ago, which kind of, I don't know where it came from. So I want to go to Germany for it. I've been to Munich airport so far. That's it. So yeah, I think I would like to be there.

Michael Doyle (30:18.056)
I was going to ask you guys, have either of you been to Berlin before or to Germany?

Katelyn Tocci (30:23.188)
I have not, but it is on the list.

Michael Doyle (30:26.29)
I've been to Berlin. I've spent some time there. I've driven on the Autobahn. Well, the Autobahn is sort of a concept. It's not one Autobahn. It's just like roads where there's no speed limit. Fun. But I've never been to Berlin. And Alex has been to the airport in Munich. Where were you going to? I know.

Katelyn Tocci (30:31.915)
Mm -hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (30:44.71)
We've got some traveling to do,

Alex Cyr (30:47.774)
It was disappointing because the airport was beautiful and I ran through it. I needed to catch my layover. I was going from France to Toronto. So, Lyon to Munich to Toronto. all I did was run and bought two Clif bars because I didn't have time to get proper lunch. Pretty sure Clif bars are American. Yeah, I had no real German experience, unfortunately, but I noticed a lot of leather.

Michael Doyle (31:12.967)
German manufactured German manufactured Clif bars. They had a slightly different taste to them. The chocolate was better.

Alex Cyr (31:17.274)
Maybe. Yeah, the packaging was super efficient. I don't know. I saw a lot of leather at the airport. A lot of people were wearing leather and I was like, maybe that's the Berlin spillover. I don't know. Because there's a big like clubbing district in Berlin or clubbing culture. So yeah, that's like my one takeaway from Germany. So I'm due to go back.

Katelyn Tocci (31:20.811)
Hehehehe

Michael Doyle (31:30.864)
Yeah, Berkheim, yeah.

Michael Doyle (31:38.493)
Do you guys count if you've been to an airport but not anywhere else in the country? Does that mean that you have traveled to that country?

Katelyn Tocci (31:48.62)
Absolutely not. No.

Alex Cyr (31:50.552)
No, I used to, but it just leads to an awkward conversation. So, but like, have you been in Germany? I'll be like, yeah, I've been in Germany. where'd you go? And then you're like, Munich airport.

Katelyn Tocci (31:57.854)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. No, that doesn't count. That can't possibly count.

Michael Doyle (31:58.948)
Like Munich.

Alex Cyr (32:02.659)
Nah, doesn't really count. Why, do you? Do you, Michael?

Michael Doyle (32:04.197)
I agree. No, no, I agree. I agree. I think there's like a greediness, especially when you're younger, where you're like, well, if I've been to this airport for a layover, that means that I've been to Italy or Spain or whatever. No, no, you got to go to the place. You to see the people. Got to be on the ground. That's right. Okay. Back to Berlin. Okay. So far we've done rollerblading, American football in Germany, and Alex's time in the Munich airport eating Clif bars. We're doing really well here.

Katelyn Tocci (32:05.866)
No.

Katelyn Tocci (32:17.674)
Yeah. Eat the food. Eat the food. Yeah.

Okay, back to

Katelyn Tocci (32:34.201)
haven't gotten to prom yet let's keep going

Michael Doyle (32:38.493)
Prom is what the people keep coming back for as our prom talk. This is our project over the next 10 episodes is like leaking out dribs and drabs of the details of our prom experiences. Caitlin told us before we hit recording that she's been to more than one prom.

Katelyn Tocci (32:55.478)
No, I asked how many proms did you guys go to when you were in high school. That's all. I didn't say how many proms I went to. I just asked how many. No, no, no, we'll just we'll leave it there. Yeah, stay tuned.

Michael Doyle (33:05.597)
Are we going to do this now? What's going on? Stay tuned to a future episode of the Marathon Handbook podcast where we talk about how many prongs we've attended. I'm not even going to answer that. We're just going to tease out for the future. since 1990, so the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, I believe. Yes. The Cold War ended in 1989. The reunification of Germany took place in 1989.

Alex Cyr (33:08.387)
I feel -

Katelyn Tocci (33:15.403)
Ha

Michael Doyle (33:35.077)
which allowed for the race, to encapsulate the whole of the city of Berlin. Previously, it was a West German only race. Cool factoid for particularly for those who've read too many John Le Carre novels is East Germans would sneak over to West Germany for the marathon, run the race under like a fake name so that the Stasi, the secret police,

the Soviet East German secret police wouldn't discover that they've done this, they'd run the marathon and then sneak back. How badass is that? Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (34:12.628)
Ooh, I love it. Yeah, that's totally badass.

Michael Doyle (34:17.245)
Like that's a passion for distance running right there. Can you imagine you, you have to sneak across an international border that is heavily guarded by with machine gun turrets and barbed wire. You sneak over to run 26 .2 miles and then afterwards for your cool down, you got to sneak back.

Katelyn Tocci (34:44.438)
Little bit risky.

Michael Doyle (34:44.807)
That's, yeah.

Alex Cyr (34:46.031)
Man, nowadays people do time trials and put it on Strava. We're in a different era.

Michael Doyle (34:51.549)
Can you imagine the East Germany to West Germany Strava post in 1983? Probably would blow your cover. anyway, yeah, so that's allowed, obviously, this more sort of fulsome course to be incorporated. It's pretty cool course, known for being quite quick. So let's talk about this for a second, guys, because I've had some people tell me how

I've had some tell me like no listen you got to look at the course profile It's trickier than you think and I did and they are right. It sort of seems to fall somewhere between Between London and New York in terms of major marathon course profiles It's not hilly by any stretch But there is a section that climbs a little bit about two -thirds of the way through the race that looks a little bit tricky

Katelyn Tocci (35:22.336)
Really?

Michael Doyle (35:50.749)
It's got a very gentle last 10k. What you gain, you get given all the way back in the last 10k and you kind of float into the finish line. But it also has a shitload of turns. I counted over 40 turns in the race.

Katelyn Tocci (35:57.036)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (36:06.524)
boy, okay. So do you have to run tangents? Can you even do that with so many people? That, yeah, okay. Mm

Alex Cyr (36:08.143)
That's a lot.

Michael Doyle (36:12.829)
That's the problem. That's the challenge. think that's the, the unknown for a lot of people in the mass field, you know, our, our friends in the elite field accepted because they get the full run of the course. And thus the reason for these world records. But if you're middle of the pack and it's going 20 wide and you're trying to go through some of these, these

Katelyn Tocci (36:30.922)
Right, to have the space.

Michael Doyle (36:41.937)
these Berlin city streets where it's pretty tight. You're probably not running on that blue line the world marathon majors paint on the tarmac for you to follow the exact measurement of the course. So yeah, that's interesting. That makes me kind of like second guess Berlin a little bit as just like my idea of it is like a super fast race.

Katelyn Tocci (36:50.963)
Mm -hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (37:05.429)
Yeah, the crowds might have something to do with that. It might be a little tricky like you're saying not for the elites So that's why they're getting those world records, but for you or I well, maybe just for me It might be a little trickier being in the in the groups. And what about but what about the weather? Well, does the weather help also make it a little bit of a faster race because it should be pretty cool temperature, shouldn't it? Yeah

Michael Doyle (37:27.162)
Yeah, usually gets, usually gets sort of like that nine, 10, 11, 12 degrees Celsius, which is what in Caitlin, our American friend here, translated that into Fahrenheit was in the 50s, right? This sixties. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So fast running temperatures, although they, they did get a hot weather day in the last couple of years, which I think scared people a little bit because it's like, wait a minute, this race is in September, not October or November.

Katelyn Tocci (37:41.619)
Could it be, it could be the fifties, think, late forties,

Michael Doyle (37:57.912)
you know, fears of with climate change kind of creating this endless summer type scenario. It'll interesting to see what the forecast is for this weekend. I'll pull that up while we continue to talk here because I actually didn't check. We're within Tuesday recording. We're within range of sort of a guesstimate. Yeah, so this weekend we've got, I think let's talk about the elite field here.

Katelyn Tocci (38:00.855)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (38:15.689)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Michael Doyle (38:27.406)
Let's talk about the women's race first and then the men's race. What's the vibe, guys? Women's race. What's the overall of the elite field first? Let's be honest.

honest.

Alex Cyr (38:42.848)
Two people conspicuous in their absence. One woman, one man. I think that's that's

Michael Doyle (38:50.403)
Let's go woman first because we'll talk about the guys after.

Alex Cyr (38:54.209)
Well, I mean, on the women's side, it's that the fact that Tigus Deceiva isn't there, she's become like Miss Berlin the last couple of years, two time defending champion. yeah, again, I mean, how much can we harp on the 211 as a generation defining performance, but it totally is. And I think that's what defined the Berlin Marathon the last couple of years is her presence there. And the fact she's not there is, you know,

Katelyn Tocci (38:58.59)
Mm

Alex Cyr (39:21.309)
you kind of lose a flavor of the race, but you know, it's it's like Kipchoge, how we talk about, you know, when he's not at a race or he's not at his best, it opens up the field for someone else to come in, or maybe two or three or four people to battle it out in the front. So the fact that we don't have a huge familiar name in the front of the women's race might actually be a good thing. And it's not that everyone is an unknown either. I'm personally very excited to see.

Katelyn Tocci (39:46.067)
Mm

Alex Cyr (39:50.485)
Gensébe Dibaba on the marathon course. She's done it a couple of times. I think she's scratching the surface. She's one of the fastest track athletes ever to exist. And I'm curious to see if that eventually translates into the Wicked Marathon. I think she has a couple marathons in her legs, maybe Rustbusters, and it might just be a matter of time before she throws down something huge. So I think that's what I'm most looking forward to.

Katelyn Tocci (40:15.601)
I think that I've been looking and reading about her as well, but even though Asefa isn't going to be running, I did read that she's going to be there. And I wonder if she's going to be there to also kind of be the cheerleader for her running partner or her run. Because there's Katema, what I was reading is that they have the same coach, right? So I think the name is De Lafolle.

So that they have the same running coach. And so her kind of running mate, right, or teammate will be there running. And she has a 216, 216 .07. And she, I think she had the course record in the Dubai marathon. And that was her first marathon. So she came in seventh in London. And so I wonder if we'll see something really exciting from her and see how her training.

maybe mirror something that Asefa has also done. So I think she's kind of the one that I'm on the lookout for and I want to see how she performs being her teammate.

Michael Doyle (41:21.498)
So this is Tigist Katema, not to be confused with Tiga Acefa, who they trained together. Acefa, world record holder, 211. Tigist Katema, who is, think, far and away the favorite to win this race. As you said, Caitlin, 216 in Dubai this year in her debut. Fastest debut in history, which is pretty impressive, obviously. And I think it's ninth.

Katelyn Tocci (41:25.095)
Right. Right.

Katelyn Tocci (41:31.205)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (41:41.533)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Michael Doyle (41:51.226)
Fastest all time. So are we gonna get a situation? where a relative unknown marathon runner similar to take us to sephar this past year somebody who like is not super on the radar of the casual fan is she gonna go from 216 to 210 is she just gonna come out of nowhere and just Absolutely smash the world record kind of like a sephar did

and become suddenly this like superstar and running that we start wondering more and more about, or we'll just see an increment incremental game or will she even win? That's a big question mark. can answer that before we move on to the men. But, I guess that, that, that has me pivoting Alex to the question of, we going to see something sensational in this race? Or is this one going to kind of get lost in the shuffle and the kind of like hangover of the Paris Olympic games?

that kind of sucked up all the top level talent has left Berlin being a little bit of like a of a B list of performances and athletes here.

Alex Cyr (43:03.169)
Well, Berlin inadvertently shot itself in the foot by having too many awesome performances in the last few years. It's kind of the curse of a really good road race is you keep expecting more and more, you know, just you saying that. Will we see a 210? That's an absurd thing to say. Like, how are we going to expect a 210? How can we come to expect something like that? I mean, I think it's going to be really tough as viewers to be excited because our benchmark is so high. What I hope happens

is that not only does Dibaba have a good start, also Kitema delivers, goes a few minutes faster than her 2 .16, which would be a natural progression, maybe not 2 .10, but even something like a 2 .15 or 2 .14 would be phenomenal. And I'd love to see a third athlete mix it up in Ababel Yeshene. I think she's a dark horse and she might bring some excitement to the race. So she's like, I think she's bidding to become quietly the fastest

like six star major athlete out there because she's done four of the majors. This is her fifth. And most recently she finished second at the Boston Marathon, but that's way back in 2022. But she has two silvers and one bronze at Marathon majors. So I don't know. I feel like you have a trio of athletes all with different stories who converge in this like this to try to do the same goal to win. You have the track athlete.

You have the marathon major veteran and then you have the new up and comer on the marathon scene. So I think if you buy into that story, it ends up being pretty exciting on the women's side and without knowing that there's a clear, clear favorite. So I still think that if you can appreciate the race for what it is, it can end up being pretty exciting.

Michael Doyle (44:51.38)
I think, I think it's really on a company like Adidas in this moment to take someone like Tigus Katema, is one, she is a Adidas athlete and presumably will be wearing their super duper fast, pro Evo one or two, whichever iteration, probably the Evo two, I would guess. So she'll be their featured athlete and it's kind of on them. I've been thinking about this. I've been thinking about.

Thinking about Kipchoge a lot this week. I've been thinking about the legacy that that guy created and how that legacy was built. And Nike played a massive, massive role in building that legacy and building out this idea of who this athlete is and how we all know him. He's a household name. My six year old knows who Kipchoge is. know, he, he's somebody who you might get in a conversation with someone that's not a runner and you meant, know, and they find out that you're a runner.

Katelyn Tocci (45:23.118)
Mm

Michael Doyle (45:50.782)
Like Alex, you're at like, you know, one of these weird board game nights, you young millennials play instead of, you know, going to a bar or whatever. And you're having a chat with some stranger and they're like, you run and you're like, are you a runner? And they're like, no, no, but like, like that Kipchoge guy. I know that Kipchoge guy, right? Because he has sort of permeated the mainstream and Nike had a huge role in that.

Alex Cyr (46:00.85)
Mm -hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (46:15.395)
Mm

Michael Doyle (46:20.406)
right? They got him and we'll go into this a little bit more when we talk about the men's field, because I think the, the, the, the fact that Kipchoge is not there is sort of the biggest story of all, but I think it's up to Adidas take someone like Kitema like they have done with Acefa and have us know who this person is a little bit more, build up their brand, know, build up their athletes, introduce them to the world in more detail.

Katelyn Tocci (46:21.059)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (46:38.169)
Mm

Michael Doyle (46:48.062)
Use this platform in Berlin to do so, particularly if she wins, particularly if she runs a hot time. There we go. There's my soap boxing for this episode. I like to get that in once an episode. to to old man yells at clouds. let's talk about the men's event. before we leave the women's predictions, what do we think? Who thinks going to win? we, what do we think in terms of time?

Katelyn Tocci (46:55.789)
you

Katelyn Tocci (47:12.899)
I'm going with Katema. And I'm gonna also agree with Alex. I'm gonna say it's not like she's gonna hit Asefa's time, but maybe shave off a minute or two from her time, from her previous time. So maybe 2 .15, 2 .14. And I know Alex, you're going with Diwawa, right?

Alex Cyr (47:30.406)
I don't know. think Dibaba is actually a gamble. I would love to see Dibaba break out and become a star, kind of like a Stefan Hassan type thing that, you know, track athlete becomes amazing marathoner. I don't know if I would bet on it. I probably agree with you, but just because I want to maybe bet against you, I'm going to go with Ababel Yeshene and just, well, we got to create some competition here.

Michael Doyle (47:31.51)
Hmm

Katelyn Tocci (47:36.885)
huh.

Katelyn Tocci (47:54.819)
Let's see, right? 10 bucks. Yep.

Alex Cyr (47:56.669)
10 bucks, do it. I mean, Canadian dollars? Sure. Okay, so.

Michael Doyle (48:00.723)
are like for American dollars.

Alex Cyr (48:02.973)
American dollars, an American coffee maybe. Yeah, when we meet in America. But I think the case for Yeshine is the experience. I think a 64 half marathon, which Yeshine has, is nothing to sneeze at. I think when all is said and done, Katema probably has more potential in the long term given her quick and steady progression. But at this point in their careers, I could see Yeshine.

Michael Doyle (48:06.175)
There you go.

Katelyn Tocci (48:06.432)
All right.

Katelyn Tocci (48:26.797)
Mm

Alex Cyr (48:30.863)
using her experience and taking the win. So I'm gonna bet on it.

Katelyn Tocci (48:33.398)
Okay, Michael?

Michael Doyle (48:34.847)
Yes, it's too bad we don't have like odds here. we could, know, cause odds obviously steer your decision -making, right? Like you'd probably get like Yeshine would probably give you pretty good odds because she's kind of not the, the, the headliner here or Katama is. So she's probably a better bet. I like Yeshine. I like her running style. I remember from the pandemic era half marathon world championships in

Katelyn Tocci (48:41.152)
Mm -hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (48:49.366)
Mm -hmm.

Michael Doyle (49:04.981)
Poland, kind of reaching deep in the bag here. But she ran a really like feisty, hearty effort. Like I remember like the Adidas Super shoe at the time, which was still relatively new, didn't have like very much grip under it. And she like slid off the course in a turn. It was weird. It was like a, like a car without like grip on the tires, just like sliding off the course. And I think she got tripped up at one point and she still came, I think top two or three.

And obviously, you said, Alex, 104 is a pretty amazing time for a half marathon. So I feel like she's not yet broken through in the marathon because her personal best is, I don't have it listed here, but I think it's around 220. So I she needs, I think she's due for a big breakthrough. So I think I'm going to go Yeshine as well, because it's just my gut saying yes, yes to Yeshine.

And it sucks that Rosemary Wengero, who was second in Tokyo in March, she was kind of going to be the one to punch of this women's elite field and she has dropped, which stinks. And yeah, I'm excited for this race. It's going to be good, but it's sort of a question mark how it's going to play out. don't think we're going to see, don't think we're going to see a world record. I don't think we're going to see two 11 or two 10. That's for sure.

Katelyn Tocci (50:14.39)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (50:23.155)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (50:29.095)
It's really gonna, it's gonna be a tough one to break.

Michael Doyle (50:32.116)
Yeah, I can give you guys a weather update Berlin meteorology update here. It's a 9 a It's going to be 9 a It is going to be eight degrees and mostly clear and sunny in Berlin, eight degrees Celsius, which is 46 Fahrenheit. Nice job, Caitlin. That's that's a that's prime running weather.

Katelyn Tocci (50:51.457)
46.

Yep, got it.

Chilly.

Is it perfect, yeah? Okay.

Alex Cyr (51:03.899)
Aren't there, I need to fact check this, aren't there scientific studies out there that show that roughly 8, 9 degrees Celsius is the optimal running temperature?

Michael Doyle (51:14.737)
Yeah. You'll, you'll talk to a lot of Ethiopian and Kenyan runners who say that, that they find that a bit cold. And so if you're one of the, the weirdos like us who will be up in the middle of the night live stream in this thing at three o 'clock in the morning, you'll probably note that if it's seven, eight degrees Celsius at the start line, you might see some of the elite runners wearing like, like gloves, long sleeve, maybe even a, maybe even a toque, maybe even like the winter hat, which, you know, probably will come off at some point in the race, but at least to start.

Katelyn Tocci (51:27.083)
Mm -hmm.

Michael Doyle (51:44.325)
So, but it is, I believe there's a pretty comprehensive meta analysis of a whole bunch of top level marathons that were done over a long period of time. And like, I think the sweet spot is like, yeah, like eight, nine degrees and overcast with low humidity is where you get the fastest races. Okay. Men's race. Okay. The men's race. Yeah. I think it starts.

Katelyn Tocci (51:44.406)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (51:58.208)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (52:08.448)
It's gonna be a weird one. It's gonna be a weird one.

Michael Doyle (52:13.171)
It starts with this. This is a crazy stat. This is the first time in 11 years that someone by the name of Elliot Kipchoge or Kenanisa Bekele have not been in the elite field at the Berlin Marathon. That's over a decade where these two guys dominated the race. So this is a changing of the guard. This is what I would categorize as like

Katelyn Tocci (52:32.564)
decade.

Wow, yeah.

Completely.

Michael Doyle (52:43.664)
The end of Elliot Kipchoge in particular as box office must see TV and marathoning. this is the, this is a real, think the moment that we can pinpoint is the Paris Olympic marathon when the guy stepped off the course. That was the end. And, and, know, Kenny Bacchale was, you know, back there as well. But really when Kipchoge struggled in Paris, that was the formal end of an era. think.

and men's marathoning, elite marathoning. And this is the beginning of the new era, this Berlin marathon, because this race, which has been so dependent on these two guys and on Kipchoge in particular, has to now try to figure out a way to move on and create an identity as an elite race and an elite men's race without him. And I don't think there's any turning back. Do you guys think that like, even if he like air dropped in on Sunday and it was like, it was like WWE wrestling and it's like,

Well, it's Kipchoge, he's coming out from the stands. He's like, he's going over one of the one over the barriers. He's coming in to run the race 10 seconds before the race starts. And it's like coming off the top rope. Elliot Kipchoge. I don't think any of us are going to change our bets, right? We're not going to be like, well, okay, Kipchoge is going to win now that he's here. I think that.

Alex Cyr (54:01.56)
Depends, is he wearing like a cape and a Zoro mask?

Michael Doyle (54:05.488)
That would be so dope if he was, but yeah. So I, I, I don't think we're ever going to see this as a hot take. I don't think we're ever going to see LA Cappuchoggi win a marathon major again. And I think this race is the beginning of a new era. So.

Alex Cyr (54:07.172)
tennis, if so, yes.

Katelyn Tocci (54:26.058)
So now who do we go to? It's hard to move on. It's like the end of an era like when Tom Brady retired.

Michael Doyle (54:26.117)
Guys, we've got to move on. We've got to pick up the pieces here.

Alex Cyr (54:35.449)
here we are again.

Michael Doyle (54:39.099)
There's someone named Patrick Mahomes who begs to differ that this is an end of an era.

Alex Cyr (54:39.214)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (54:39.904)
Okay, who, who? I don't know who you're referring to. I ignore. Okay, we're not gonna get into this. So, Michael, be careful. Not today. Not today because my poor patriots are not having a good start.

Michael Doyle (54:48.017)
Patrick Mahomes II, come on. The future goat.

Michael Doyle (55:00.165)
No, you're not believing in the, who's your quarterback? Jacobi Brissette? who's the guy? Drake May, the Drake May era in New England. Not happening.

Katelyn Tocci (55:06.847)
What? What?

Katelyn Tocci (55:11.807)
It's all right. It's all right. We just won't. We won't get into this today, guys. Sorry. I even brought it up. It's very, it's very, yeah, it's a difficult time for me. But we do have the third and the fourth place runners from last year running this year, correct? So we've got some.

Michael Doyle (55:15.609)
Okay, sorry, sorry. We're back to running. Back to running.

Michael Doyle (55:27.941)
by really selling it to us here.

Katelyn Tocci (55:30.047)
We've got, no, but we've got to think it's after Kipchoge. I mean, you have, you have, think four, no, there are a whole, there are like 14 athletes sub 206 times running, right? So mean, it's going to be, it's pretty good. It's going to be a pretty competitive field. I feel just looking at the times, mean, 14, that's a bunch under 206, right?

Alex Cyr (55:30.296)
Yay.

Michael Doyle (55:31.825)
We've got the third and fourth place runners from last year.

Yeah.

Michael Doyle (55:44.677)
It's pretty good.

Alex Cyr (55:53.002)
Yeah, there's a guy whose brother's good.

Michael Doyle (55:57.297)
That's right, Martin Lell's brother, is like, and who threatened to be threatened for goat status about 10 or 12 years ago in the marathon. like one, like his little brother is, is racing. Who is his little brother?

Katelyn Tocci (55:57.311)
Alex!

Alex Cyr (55:58.233)
Uhhhh... What?

Alex Cyr (56:19.137)
Cybrian Coutute is his name.

Michael Doyle (56:21.009)
Yes, who's a 204 runner. He's running. Okay. So I'll go through the list here. six, there's six guys under 205. So it's pretty good. Tedese Takele. He's our front runner, 203 .24, third last year in Berlin. So he's run the race. He knows the course. He knows what the experience is like. he's the 19th fastest marathon runner in history by time, which

Katelyn Tocci (56:23.283)
Yep, so far. Okay.

Alex Cyr (56:23.59)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (56:34.761)
Mm

Michael Doyle (56:48.273)
It's both impressive and sounds kind of weird because it's not top 10, but still 203, 24 is damn fast. Exactly.

Katelyn Tocci (56:52.602)
Mm -hmm. Still fast. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (56:57.337)
It's actually wild. It's wild that a 203 .24 is now 19th fastest of all time. It wasn't long ago where the world record was just around that. Anyway.

Michael Doyle (57:02.318)
It's my.

Katelyn Tocci (57:05.276)
Right. Yep.

Michael Doyle (57:05.681)
That's right. That's right. And after the days of rollerblading was the rollerblading days, we were looking at a 206, 207 world record. Ronald career of Kenya. He came in fourth. As you mentioned, Caitlin, he's a 204 guy. He was fourth year last year in Berlin. And another interesting name, your boy, Alex Kibbewot candy.

Katelyn Tocci (57:23.088)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Michael Doyle (57:35.76)
He is the former half marathon world record holder. But he's been like quote unquote disappointing in the marathon because he's only run 204.

Katelyn Tocci (57:38.653)
Mm -hmm.

Alex Cyr (57:46.36)
Yeah, but he's another one like I'd put him in somewhat in like the DeBaba category where you're not quite sure where his potential lies, right? At 57 is incredibly fast. Maybe it's just a thing where he has to figure out the marathon and do it twice, right? So I'm actually, he's the athlete I'm most excited to watch. He's probably the, I mean, I'll save my bets for later, but he's the one name I think that gave me excitement in the post.

Kipchoge Bikili era of Berlin. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do.

Michael Doyle (58:20.143)
Yeah, he's performed really well on flat fast courses. I believe he is a veteran of the Valencia marathon experience. And as you said, 5732 is his former world record time in the half marathon, which is just wild that someone can run 57 minutes in the marathon. And it's also wild that it's not the world record anymore. Yeah. then I believe it was. Yes. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (58:28.684)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (58:40.101)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (58:43.941)
And that was also in Valencia, right? I think so. Was that also? Yeah, I believe it was so.

Michael Doyle (58:49.007)
Yeah, they bring in us this, the, the old stacked field for the half marathon in Valencia. And then there's a couple of Pacers, Asmare and Kiros, two guys to keep an eye out on that have both run under 205, but they are doing Pacer duties. And the reason why I'm bringing Pacers to your attention is because Berlin has a weird history of having Pacers.

either win the marathon unexpectedly or, or a weird kind of controversial finish involving a Pacer. So many years ago, a Pacer was like the last guy standing in the race. The person he was assigned pacing duties to dropped out. So the Pacer was just kind of like, I guess I'm going to win this thing, which happened. think it was about 15 years ago that happened.

Katelyn Tocci (59:44.753)
I might as well go.

Michael Doyle (59:48.559)
And then also one year, Jeffrey camorra was pacing the world record holder at the time. believe it was Jeffrey Moutai. I'm just going off memory here, guys. this is about 10 years ago in Berlin. And there was this weird slowdown in the last couple hundred meters of the race because camorra was going to win the race because he was just running better than Moutai, but he had to let Moutai win. I guess.

because the one guy was a pacer, the other guy was the top dog in the field, right? So, yeah. So we've seen weirdness with pacers. So I'm just gonna put that out there, that there's two really talented sub 205 guys that are pacing, who knows? What do we think is gonna happen? Do we think the Kipper or Bichelli are just gonna come in for the cage match the last second, and you're gonna get the comp tiers going like,

Katelyn Tocci (01:00:36.6)
Mm -hmm. Okay.

Michael Doyle (01:00:49.029)
my god, it's it's Kipchoge. He's wearing a mask. No, we're not going to get that.

Alex Cyr (01:00:55.639)
Would that be cool? Wouldn't that be cool? I want... What do I think is gonna happen? I kind of want to see one of the locals mix it up with the lead pack. And I think there's a small... Yeah, Hendrick Pfeiffer. So we saw him in Houston earlier this year. That's where he ran his best time. He's a 207 runner. you know, not personal...

Michael Doyle (01:01:07.852)
Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (01:01:08.157)
like Hendrik Pfeiffer, maybe? -huh.

Michael Doyle (01:01:15.535)
yeah!

Katelyn Tocci (01:01:17.882)
Mm -hmm.

Alex Cyr (01:01:22.154)
best -wise, he's not quite up there with the others, but you see that happen sometimes, right? People get emboldened by being in their home city. There's no jet lag. There's no problem. He's probably been prepping for this for a while. And I think, you know, it'd bring a bit of flavor to the race to see a local mix it up. So I'm kind of rooting for Pfeiffer. What I think is going to happen is I think this is a good stage for Kibbewad Kandy's breakout race. You know, he's been trying to figure out the marathon for quite a few years. He obviously has the talent and well, now there's

kind of an open lane way to the podium here. So same thing. He probably wants the prize purse. He probably sees that it's very realistic that he could win. I'm guessing that he's made this his big race too. So those are my two predictions. My winner's candy and my dark horse for the podium is I'll give it to Pfeiffer.

Katelyn Tocci (01:02:09.206)
nice. I love it.

Michael Doyle (01:02:11.224)
Caitlin, what do you got? What do you think is going to happen? Any sort of men's marathon prediction? What are the tea leaves saying today? Who is the next Elliott Kocogi? Do we see the next Elliott? Do we see the next Elliott Kocogi in this start list? Probably not.

Katelyn Tocci (01:02:13.914)
Well...

Katelyn Tocci (01:02:19.269)
To be honest, that I don't know.

Katelyn Tocci (01:02:26.863)
Hmm. The thing is is that I took a little bit I took a little bit of a deep dive into candy and I started to Read about his story and you guys know how I choose my runners, right? I never choose the runners the way that I should and I so he was my pick But now that Alex picked him, I've got to go against Alex. Yes, I I can Okay, because I did have candy even though in this case. He isn't the fastest runner because for the women I chose

Michael Doyle (01:02:44.075)
No, no, you can pick whatever you want. Pick who you want.

Katelyn Tocci (01:02:52.751)
the fastest runner as the one who I thought is going to win, but I did choose Candy for this one. So Alex, we're not betting against each other in this end on the men's side.

Alex Cyr (01:03:00.095)
Well, I don't know. All I know is I want candy, so you decide.

Katelyn Tocci (01:03:05.147)
I'm no I'm with you. I'm on your side. I'm on your side

Michael Doyle (01:03:10.762)
sleep

Alex Cyr (01:03:10.813)
Okay. Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (01:03:13.114)
Michael?

Michael Doyle (01:03:13.229)
I'm going to go with Cybrian Coteut, brother of marathon great Martin Lyle, simply to give me an excuse to tell a very brief Martin Lyle story, which I just remembered, as you mentioned him, Alex. A couple of years ago, I'm running on a well -known trail called the Beltline Trail here in Toronto.

Katelyn Tocci (01:03:18.723)
Okay. Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (01:03:29.733)
okay, go for it.

Michael Doyle (01:03:42.797)
in the fall, I believe it was marathon Toronto marathon week. And I, I'm running along and I pass a dude and I'm running easy. Like I'm running like four or 45 a kilometer or something like that. And I pass a guy wearing a Kenyan national team suit, like the full, the full outfit. And he's got like a winter hat on cause it's like 10 degrees Celsius. So it's like in the 50.

Katelyn Tocci (01:03:59.759)
Easy.

Michael Doyle (01:04:12.557)
cold and got like gloves on and the full Kenyon national team kit. It's Martin Lowe. And he's just crawling along and he's and yeah, it's just crawling along at like 530 pace. It is true. The Kenyon shuffle is real. And I felt like such an asshole going by the guy. Cause I was like, this guy is so much better than I could ever possibly dream of being. And I'm passing him here.

Katelyn Tocci (01:04:21.724)
so cool.

Michael Doyle (01:04:41.182)
on my stupid easy run.

Alex Cyr (01:04:41.382)
Yeah, I feel like I would have like slowed down because there's a respect gap. You got to just leave the guy or I would have turned around.

Michael Doyle (01:04:47.424)
Yeah, just like back off. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, you're like, have to stay behind him. Like you're not allowed to pass him yet. I would just turn around. I didn't know it was at first. I kind of wanted to like eyeball who it was at first. And I'm, fairly confident with Martin. Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (01:04:54.896)
Yeah.

Alex Cyr (01:05:01.908)
Wow. Can I share my Kenyan sighting story?

Katelyn Tocci (01:05:02.725)
Wow, that's so cool.

Yes!

Michael Doyle (01:05:06.708)
Of course, that's what we're here for. That's what the people.

Alex Cyr (01:05:08.052)
has nothing to do with Martin Lell, but this is from 2017. I'm living in Eastern Canada, Halifax, Nova Scotia. It's post -university, so I'm working at a physio clinic at a reception desk. And this one gentleman comes in and we get into a conversation and he says, there's so many good runners around this city. I say, really? He says, I was running on the BLT Trail, which is like a pretty popular running route in Halifax.

I was running on the BLT trail this morning and this runner just zoomed by me. And as soon as he says that, my mind goes where? I ran on the BLT trail this morning. This guy's talking about me. I said... So I look at him and I say, is that right? Because I was doing a tempo that morning too and it was kind of steamy so I thought, all right. I say, okay, you were... says, yeah. He zoomed by me so quickly it felt like I was standing still. And I say, tell me more. What would this guy look like? I'm thinking he doesn't recognize that it's me. He says...

Michael Doyle (01:05:46.817)
I know.

Michael Doyle (01:06:03.286)
Ha ha ha ha.

Alex Cyr (01:06:05.692)
Long legs, fast ride, beautiful runner. I go, yep, yep. He goes, I think it was a Team Kenya suit that he had. And then I stopped. Okay, well, no, this isn't me. Later I find out who was in Halifax that day visiting in -laws or extended family? Bernard Legat, like one of the greatest milers in history. So I took an ego check and this may be the only one time that I compared myself to Bernard Legat.

Michael Doyle (01:06:25.57)
wow, cool.

Katelyn Tocci (01:06:28.654)
Ha ha ha.

Alex Cyr (01:06:34.648)
knowing that he was around and then a bunch of the guys got to run with him. I missed him. I was at work. Anyway, that was my failed chance, but yeah, Ligat was hanging on Canada.

Katelyn Tocci (01:06:45.527)
Wow.

Michael Doyle (01:06:45.654)
Bernard Legat, you are not. No, you're good, you're not that good.

Alex Cyr (01:06:47.476)
Nope nope

Katelyn Tocci (01:06:50.425)
I have never seen, I haven't ever bumped into an elite runner running, but I have to say that when I met Kelvin Kipton last year at TRE, I was so incredibly starstruck and he was like the nicest man to speak with and I asked him about his pre -race food and all that. He was just so nice. So not running because I would probably never be able to pass or come close to an elite runner like you guys have, but.

But that was my like starstruck moment last year at TRE when I

Michael Doyle (01:07:22.381)
You would have taken down Martin Lell. He was running like very, very slowly, very slowly, shockingly slow.

Katelyn Tocci (01:07:25.081)
Well, they do take their easy runs easy, right? They do follow the rule. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (01:07:26.131)
Yeah

Michael Doyle (01:07:30.687)
Yeah. They know what they're doing. Do as the Kenyans do. Do the Kenyan shuffle. All right. Closing thoughts, guys. My closing question for both of you. Berlin is the first fall marathon major. It is, you know, it's one of them six star, for now, races.

Katelyn Tocci (01:07:41.401)
Yeah.

Michael Doyle (01:07:58.974)
This is kind of like a two pronged question. Where do you rank Berlin in terms of the world marathon majors, both as one that you want to run personally and also as an overall, like as a spectacle, as a race, like where's Berlin rank in your mind as a marathon major that like, and you're like, I want to watch this. I want to have an instant reaction podcast talking all about this afterwards. For example.

Where do you rank it both as race you want to run first and then overall? Because those are two different things, right? All right, Alex, you go first.

Alex Cyr (01:08:37.287)
race I want to run, I rank it third. My number one is Tokyo. For travel purposes, I just want to see Tokyo. It could be very cool. Number two is London. I have been to London before. I loved it. I'd be happy to go again, but also it seems like the people I talked to who've done the majors all have London as a favorite. So put that as my number two. Berlin, number three because of that fast element. I know that when I

Michael Doyle (01:08:40.948)
Okay.

Katelyn Tocci (01:08:41.378)
Ha

Alex Cyr (01:09:06.055)
debut in the marathon or get into the marathon, I will want to run a fast one and Berlin seems to be that way. When it comes to covering it and the story around Berlin, I think the story is a lot about how fast it is recently and so if it somewhat loses that, then I wouldn't rank it nearly as high. I think Boston obviously has a lot more story to it. I would rank Berlin probably closer to Chicago in that

It's exciting because you always think that you might see something great, but there might not be as much history or at least known history around the race itself like say a Boston or a New York or a London. So I'll call it five.

Michael Doyle (01:09:49.546)
Okay, Caitlin.

Katelyn Tocci (01:09:50.624)
Okay. You know, it's going to seem like Alex cheated and looked at my list, but it's okay. to run the race, to run, because, okay, guys, I'm going to be honest. Last week when we had our podcast and we started talking about the marathon majors, now the marathon majors were never on my list. But after we had the podcast last week, I really started thinking about it and talking about it with friends. And I decided that I do want to do it. So you see, you guys gave me the bug with talking about them. So I definitely want to do it. So.

I actually made the list in my head already kind of thinking about it. I know there are a lot of reasons such and I have to be lucky to get into a lot of them. But Boston is number one for many reasons, right? Boston is number one because it's my hometown. I'm hopefully going to be running it as my first major. So I'm excited about that. I put London as number two, Alex. And that's because I want Michael and Alex and I to run London together. That's why.

Michael Doyle (01:10:46.058)
I love it. love this. I love this like brewing concept. You're like you're working on it or you're bringing it back up. You're workshopping it. We're going to we're going to wheel it into existence. 2026.

Katelyn Tocci (01:10:49.504)
Yeah.

Katelyn Tocci (01:10:55.071)
Yeah, I'm like putting the bug in your ears because I want us to run London and get Thomas in there too. I want Thomas to go with us too. So we got to run and Amby, we all got to run London together, the whole team. And so then I also had Berlin as number three because I think that it's going to be super fun to run the history, everything that is Berlin that I would love to go to Germany. I would love to go as a touristy thing. New York is then the next one because of what Michael has been saying about running through the boroughs. It just seems like it would be a really cool race.

Michael Doyle (01:11:05.522)
whole team I love it

Katelyn Tocci (01:11:23.991)
So yeah, so I also had Berlin as number three and pretty close to the same for covering it because of this, actually the same reasons as why I would want to run it. And I think it's very, the history is really rich, you know, the fast times, the world records. So it's kind of, it kind of sticks around the same in the middle for me for both, for both reasons. What about you, Michael?

Michael Doyle (01:11:47.368)
Yeah, I just jotted down my list because I realized I hadn't made one like I'd been thinking about it for a while. It's an interesting question. It's something that's It's like a list that kind of moves around I think over time, you know and it really depends on what races you've already run before and so on and so forth in terms of my hierarchy of marathon majors for Experience and running myself. I have New York at the top even though I've run it before and the reason for that is

Katelyn Tocci (01:11:58.966)
Okay.

Michael Doyle (01:12:17.481)
I ran New York once in 2017. I was covering it. So it was a professional duty. It was a very weird experience to both run the race and be covering it at the same time. I stalked something like, I don't know, like, like 25 times or something on the course and did like Instagram live hits throughout of like the various features of the course. Like I came up with this whole.

list of various like, famed, you know, bands playing on course, different spots in the race, the bridges, all these various vantage points. And I was like, run, run, run, stop. Here's the bridge. Run, run, run, stop. Here's the high school band that's been playing that plays Rocky over and over again for the entirety of the race. Run for a bit, stop in front of like this.

Baptist choir that performs in front of a church every year. so kind of this like, immersive experience that was a really weird way of running a marathon. was enjoyable because like, just sort of like ran it easy, but I'd like to go back and actually just like run it for real on my own. So I got New York that's top. Then I got Tokyo as for all the reasons Alex said, Tokyo travel experience.

Katelyn Tocci (01:13:26.144)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (01:13:35.176)
Okay. Okay.

Michael Doyle (01:13:43.76)
one of the top places in the world I'd like to travel to. It looks like a pretty darn good race. The Japanese are obsessed with the marathon. Let's do this. Then I got London, because I've been to London to cover the race. My wife speaks very highly of it. Had a great experience, even though she didn't love her performance, which is always telling. When somebody has a crappy race and they still sing the praises of the marathon, you know it's a good race. So London looks awesome. Want to do that. And then I Berlin. Haven't run Berlin. Want to do it.

Katelyn Tocci (01:13:52.147)
you

Katelyn Tocci (01:14:08.115)
Yep. Totally.

Okay.

Michael Doyle (01:14:13.638)
And after that, back to Boston again for the...

Michael Doyle (01:14:20.488)
killy torture test that is running the Boston Marathon, the chess match with the course, and then finally Chicago, just because I've run it so many times. It's like now it's been like reduced to the bottom of the list because I'm running it this fall. So, and then in terms of experience, Alex, going to Boston and covering the Boston Marathon is the funnest thing ever. And it's such an exciting race from a history and cultural perspective. Boston's the top for me.

Katelyn Tocci (01:14:23.157)
You

Alex Cyr (01:14:41.442)
school.

Michael Doyle (01:14:50.577)
Then New York for very similar reasons. London is third. Chicago, Tokyo, and I Berlin last right now. And the reason why I have it last is just, feel like it's sort of just for this year, it's like lacking a bit of identity. Like I want to take us to staff it back on the start line next year. And I want to see them start to like take responsibility for building out the identity of the next wave of great distance runners.

Katelyn Tocci (01:15:08.252)
Mm

Michael Doyle (01:15:20.667)
That's on Adidas, it's on Nike, it's on races like Berlin. It's their responsibility to do this. So let's go, let's do that. Yeah.

Alex Cyr (01:15:29.963)
Make a prediction. In...

two years time, 2026, Joshua Chepdiguy and Jacob Kaplemo will line up in Berlin and steal the show. The two Ugandans, Kaplemo, by the way, has the half marathon record, right? He's the one who took it away from Kibbewot Candy and Chepdiguy, obviously the Olympic 10K champion. That's going to happen. And I think that's what's going to bring the identity back to Berlin. Because the identity is that it's fast. I don't think Berlin can go away from it.

They're in deep trouble if they can't produce fast times for a couple of years, but my guess is that they're fighting to get that back. So hopefully this year, if not, hopefully soon.

Michael Doyle (01:16:13.67)
2025 Berlin breaking to that should be their project. That should be their project next year. I mean, there's the world championships in Tokyo in the summer.

Katelyn Tocci (01:16:19.249)
Oooh!

Alex Cyr (01:16:19.778)
Ooh, next year?

Katelyn Tocci (01:16:21.941)
Amazing.

Michael Doyle (01:16:28.934)
They should just cause someone's going to do this. Some event at some race, be it one of these marathon majors or our friends in Valencia, because they're already kind of teasing at this for this year. If it doesn't happen this year, which it probably won't in 2025, someone or your 2026, one of these two next couple of years, someone is going to need to bring a shitload of money together and just bring all the best, all the total killers in to try to break.

Alex Cyr (01:16:39.196)
Mm

Michael Doyle (01:16:57.83)
It's up to 11 or 10 on the women's side and then two hours on an official course. As we know, Kiccioggi did it in 2019 on like a test event that was designed for him, right? That would be cool. That should be Berlin's goal for next year or the year after. Whether or not they want to put that together, it's up to them. All right, guys. I think that's it. I think we've done it. think we've covered off. is the most

Katelyn Tocci (01:17:05.426)
Mm

Katelyn Tocci (01:17:11.646)
That would be very cool.

Michael Doyle (01:17:27.514)
the most complete preview out there in the pod universe for the Berlin Marathon. Until next week, make sure you subscribe to our newsletter. Monday to Friday, Caitlin Tosse. You are one of two overseers of the great newsletter along with Jesse Carvath, our teammate and news editor. Alex Sear, what you got coming on the YouTube channel. You just put a video out.

Alex Cyr (01:17:55.63)
which put a video out, a review of the Brooks Glycerin Max, which is a wild super shoe, I guess super trainer who were in New York doing a review. So that was pretty cool. I'm like working in the background on a breaking 30 video for which I need, you know, to break 30 minutes over 10K. So we're still workshopping that, but we're gathering clips slowly.

Katelyn Tocci (01:18:15.074)
Plug it away.

Michael Doyle (01:18:19.59)
We'll be sending the documentary crew to every single 10K you do over the next 11 months, just like with bated breath at the finish line. It's like 35 seconds. shit. We gotta go. We gotta go for another one. It'll be like a $200 million project to capture Alex breaking 30 minutes in the 10K.

Katelyn Tocci (01:18:24.638)
Yep.

Alex Cyr (01:18:24.717)
Mm -hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (01:18:30.653)
no.

Alex Cyr (01:18:31.278)
Hmm.

Katelyn Tocci (01:18:36.846)
Hahaha

Alex Cyr (01:18:37.774)
Mm -hmm. But we're working on it. Another video I'm working on is I think people want to know how to break 15. That's what I've been told. And so that's caused me to like look internally and think what is it? What's the secret sauce to breaking 13? Sorry, to breaking 15. To breaking 13? Stay tuned. Stay tuned.

Michael Doyle (01:18:58.022)
to breaking 15 minutes in the 5K. You know, I gotta say, I will never break 15 minutes in the 5K and never could have, but I would like to watch that video. I'd like to know how you did. curious, I'm curious. Okay, we'll have to that one up. All right, guys, we will be back in your ears and on your eyeballs on YouTube, because we do a video pod as well as on all the podcasts.

Katelyn Tocci (01:18:59.187)
I'm like, wow, yes.

Katelyn Tocci (01:19:10.619)
Yep, me too.

Michael Doyle (01:19:27.814)
platforms falling apart here. We will be back on Sunday for a Berlin instant reaction pod, talking all about the elite races, the experience of the race and much more. think we're going to get a little intel from, Mr. Andy Burfoot is running Berlin, our teammate and the godfather of marathon handbooks. So we will hopefully get a little bit of insight from him as well. And we'll talk to you on Sunday.

Katelyn Tocci (01:19:45.768)
Yes.