How to Select the Right Running Shoes in 2024, Drama at the U.S. Olympic Track and Field Trials, and the Super Bowl of Ultras!

On this week's pod, editors Alex Cyr, Katelyn Tocci and Michael Doyle break down all the excitement and serious drama from the U.S. Olympic Track and Field Trials in Eugene, Oregon. Then, they provide a primer and preview of the Western States 100, which is one of the oldest and most celebrated ultras in the world. And in the main segment of the pod, they chat all about the state of running shoes in 2024: what to buy, how many shoes do you really need to train for a goal race, and which super shoes are the best for running a PR.

Podcast hosts: Alex Cyr, Katelyn Tocci, Michael Doyle

Watch Alex's video where he rates the top 5 training shoes of the year (so far): 

https://youtu.be/51CEwj5RlmM

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Transcript

[Music] all right I'm joined by Alex and Katelyn and we're going to chat a little bit about the ongoing US Olympic track and field trials which are going on in Eugene Oregon right now uh they're not wrapped up yet but we'll get into some of the the drama and excitement uh one one pretty dramatic situation in particular that will unpack we'll also do a quick preview of the Western States 100 which is I guess the the Super Bowl of ultra Trail Races we'll talk about why you should care about it uh who the favorites are going in what the race is all about and then our big topic of the week is going to be picking Alex's brain about the state of running shoes in 2024 buying shoes in 2024 what the different categories are what to look for when you're for training for racing kind of a complete guide a shoe guide as it were uh from our shoe god Alex no big the pressure is on to deliver indeed yeah but first guys like um how's it going what's going on Alex you're you're back home you're you're on Prince Edward Island the land of Anne Green Gables uh living with Mom and Dad how's that going are they serving you meals are uh are you back in your little tiny bed from when you were a kid I am this is day six of living with my parents and I think I've just expire the period of time in which it's like totally cool to do absolutely nothing and to be a piece of crap and watch TV all day and not help out around the house and I I think at this point it's starting to feel a little bit weird so I'm I'm starting to contribute like I did the dishes yesterday like I I put well I put the dishes in the dishwasher yesterday yeah what a mhm mhm yeah I my kid is um it's his last day of uh senior kindergarten today so school is wrapping up we're recording this full disclosure we we recorded this yesterday Thursday and uh the internet failed us technology failed us so we did an entire podcast that then disappeared so we're doing a quick re-record we're going to push it out so if you're if you're one of the few that is waiting with baited breath at 5:00 in the morning on Friday Eastern time to receive our pod and devour it on your early morning run we apologize for failing you we will do better in the future uh so we're getting to redo the whole thing right now and um yeah so it's we're recording this Friday my kid just finished school uh or is finishing school and he's about to enter that the Endless Summer of being like a six-year-old in the summertime like I remember watching like uh cartoons in the morning and eating poptarts and then wandering until 700 p.m. in the forest with my friends I my child does not live that existence anymore that existence I don't think exists anymore for anybody was totally my child we did exactly the same thing like my parents would say okay go out and don't come back until the sun comes down and we're like okay we're going to go hang out in the woods how do we all survive I have no idea yeah yeah but uh Alex I don't know in Prince island is this idyllic sort of fantasy land is it it might still be like that although of course you're an adult now so uh but I guess you could watch cartoons and eat uh eat Froot Loops every morning and then crush a whole bunch of runs yeah well the first five days feel like that you know you can do whatever you want and it's nice to just have no responsibility and then it creeps up on you you want to participate in the world and act like you're actually 28 years old the running is nice though I'm hitting my old running routes a lot of them are like 10 Mile Loops or out and backs and right now I'm just running 30 minutes at a time so there's this part of me that wants to hammer the runs still so I've been experimenting with slightly faster easy runs than usual I'm not trying It's Just Happening they call it is this going to put us on the explicit side I'll just I'll just spell it out P SS post injury speed syndrome piss like a like the most like appropriate uh is that an that is actually an an acronym cuz cuz there's like acronym and initialism a lot of people call it uh an an acronym when it's actually doesn't spell anything but in that case that actually spells something so that's a real acronym piss that's a perfect acronym yeah Deep In Piss what I take from what you what I take from what you just said it's like an oxymoron a slightly faster easy run so is it an easy run Alex or is it a fast run coach Caitlyn coming off the top rope here this is like a I love this bit this ongoing bit where like we pretend like Caitlyn is kind of a little bit pissed off that Alex didn't hire her as a coach so now she's chastising him left and right for every SC he makes quote unquote pretend and then and then put a layer of complexity on top of that my actual coach John listens to all of these podcasts so I'm going to get a text after this saying hey how fast are you going on your easy runs in exactly so as a John give me a call let me know I'll I'll keep you in the loop as a little like side channel here uh uh I I am friends with with Alex's coach John lafranco who's a an excellent coach here in Canada and uh works for athletics Canada as well and um I was sort of I was had this little side Channel conversation a little chat with Alex and he's like you know if if things go if things go arai with you and Alex hopefully you know it doesn't hurt our friendship and I'm like no no don't worry about it I'm going to blame Alex for everything uh there you go well so so far so good so oh good nothing to worry about excellent we'll check back in when you've hurt yourself again um Caitlyn speaking uhuh yeah yeah no speaking of hurting yourself or not hurting yourself Michael I think you owe us a story about your 80k I was kind of hoping like I was kind of hoping forget about it for this for the re-record the reod here okay so for those for those of you who were tuned in last week to last last week's episode Michael was about to AR on a 80ish k Ultra is Trail Adventure on the longest day of the year uh also my birthday with uh with a couple of friends and uh I'll I can report back guys I got it done the the Apple watch Ultra 2 survived the listen to this 18 hours and 50 I think 2 minutes of runtime o yeah wow I mean I was impressed not by myself by the end of it but I was impressed with the with the Apple watch because it actually survived um and just a little like not to get too techy here or too nerdy but two of us were wearing it the other guy that was wearing it uh wore it like without putting the battery saver mode on and got almost through the entire thing I think it was like 18ish hours and the and the battery died and that was with like the the um the Bluetooth on connected to his phone that was in his bag the whole bit uh mine lasted the whole way and it had like 253 % left at the end so I was like deeply impressed by by impressive cuz the Apple watch is sort of known for not having as great a battery life as as your sort of uh typical running specific GPS watch a Garmin asto whatever so right I'm distracting from I'm burying the lead here which is uh and your run yeah I okay so we did this Loop in the middle of nowhere in Ontario uh in Canada beautiful incred old old mountains I was explaining to my kid that the mountains in much of Canada unlike in say Nepal where the mountains are actually growing still because they're new mountains in the grand scheme of things the Canadian mountains are for the most part shrinking so these were mountains that were gigantic like millions of years ago and uh they still feel quite gigantic when you try to Traverse them in a single day I'll tell you guys right now Quartzsite and granite really beautiful white crystalline Rock uh Pink Rock like quite incredible like Emerald Lakes that I'd only ever seen in the Canadian North uh beautiful sites but just like a marathon you know like everyone's like oh the New York City marathon it's so cool you get to see the five burrows go over all these Bridges blah blah blah blah blah it's like yeah I don't remember any of it because I was in a hurt box the entire time did you take any photos though or you didn't stop for photos we did we did take some photos um we sort of got like and I imagine you can relate to this Caitlyn because you've done quite a few altras we got sort of halfway through our adventure because we were filtering our it was unsupported so we were filtering our own water we're kind of fast packing it I had like a a small pack with a a 2 L bladder in the back and then I was carrying a hand flask as well yep and uh filtering water at the lake and you get sort of seduced into taking it easy I guess this happens in any race right where it's like the siren song of just like you don't have to be in a hurry this is a long day we can just sit by the lake here for a minute enjoy this camps this like you know vacant camp site that we're using for for our water filtration and uh some of our water stops got a little long on the tooth and it probably in the end cost us like like a couple of hours so um yeah if you take those stops easy and I mean yeah it's happened to me on long runs but in a race I'm always like in and out of a of a of an aid station as fast as I possibly can but when you're running with friends and it's more of like an adventure and you're training or something you can absolutely get swept up in that and and that will clock on time like you'll see in your separate time like the moving time and the non-moving time I'm sure you have a bunch of time there and that was like filter and filtering water is a whole another level that's going to take some time our moving time was only like 14 hours or something like that so we we lost so much time I mean we made so many rookie mistakes but the same time it was a really cool experience I'd say probably 30% of the trail was actually legitimately runable it's like the the most technical Trail I've ever been on routs craigy rocks Boulders mountains to go up and down about 10ish th000 meters of ascent and then 10,000 down which really punishes the quads and um hats off to this guy uh what's his name Ryan aens I believe his name is who has the fkt on this Loop who's like a legit fkt guys he's got a lot of them in Upstate New York and the area and Vermont and that sort of thing and he crushed the thing in 2020 like Peak covid summer 2020 he must have rolled into nowhere Ontario and just hammered this Loop uh it's called L clush named after a group of seven painting on the area and um he did it in 9 hours and 5 minutes which is like less than half the time we did w holy wow wow just um he didn't stop at the Lakes nope no I think he was just hitting and running I think he was just probably quickly grabbing water and then just probably he was probably dropping iodine tablets in and just drinking the the fuzzy water we were like literally squeezing uh through a charcoal filter which I think was a huge mistake but Lessons Learned uh I have like with any other event the pain has faded away the physical pain has subsided uh the ego pain is is minimal cuz I'm I'm pretty proud of what we did and uh it was super fun it was like a fun I love the idea of doing a project versus like uh just purely a Time based goal with a course like a marathon on the road like I do love the sort of uh Romanticism of the project and it's fun to do this with a couple of other people as well so I foresee this type of thing in my future I'm not done with uh not done with PR chasing just yet as an old man uh but uh I soon will be and I will I will segue I will I will elegantly uh disappear here into the forest yeah yeah so speaking of the forest the the Cloudy forests the P Perpetual sweatbox that is uh Costa Rica how is uh how's racing how's racing season going in in uh in your neck of the woods Kaitlyn it's uh it's awesome last week it was one of kind of like the most prestigious races here in Rond de laa which is out in Guanacaste which is where usually if you if any of our listeners have gone to Costa Rica you probably visit Ed guanacas cuz where all the very cool beaches are a couple volcanoes out there like awesome awesome area for tourists and so we headed out there my husband and I who are the coaches of our our running club uh we took about 35 people from our running club there which was awesome a lot of them go every year because it's just one of those classic races and um there 10K 25k 50k and other years there have been an 80k and 100K and 100 miles they did one year but it's very hot here to do 100 miles um yeah and so we had a great time it was very cool because usually when we go to races and there are other people from the the Running Club Racing We race too so we don't really get to see them a lot and also I'm in a totally different mindset I'm not in like the coaching mindset I'm in the racing mindset so it's different when I go to this race or when I go to a race and just accompany the racers it's so much fun because I get to be their personal cheerleader I'm there before they take off at the start line I'm waiting for them with homemade cookies when they come in the finish line and so I'm just like having fun having a lot of fun and supporting them and watching them like smash their goals and all that stuff which is super fun we had even a couple Podium finishes which was really exciting for a couple of the athletes they had a second place and a third place in the 25k and some people running their first Ultra some people running their first 10K it was just like a really cool weekend that's neat I as Alex and I were marveling as we're like sipping a beer the after going for a nice like 9900 p.m. Run the Night Before the Boston Marathon and having a beverage and doing a little bit of last minute cramming before we cover the race on race day it's like you know there's nothing better than being at a a big race and not having to actually run the race exactly totally yeah so uh let's let's segue into um speaking of big races the races of certain people's lives the US Olympic trials is going on right now in Eugene which is just such an awesome venue to host this I mean it they've got this incredible culture of running there with the University of Oregon the renovated Hayward Field which is like the best place on Earth to watch a race and uh and some incredible performances going on and like some pretty harrowing moments as well uh Alex let's just do a little because it's we're not done with the Olympic trials yet uh it still goes on throughout the weekend but but there's been a lot of racing this week thus far uh what's like a a standout moment for you yeah it's such a long trial seven days for picking one team oh it's tough to pick one best moment I want to go towards the 1500 but I'll resist it because I know I'm biased towards it it's my favorite sawara nus take the win one of the three best MERS in the world taking it home going to go to the championship he's got like a bunch of fans wearing goose hats to cheer him on awesome but I think the moment that stood out for me and that solidified how strong the states are was the men's 100 meter final Noah Alles takes the win 983 and I mean only a handful of men have gone under 99 in the history of the world right so 983 is incredibly Elite I think he's my pick to be the Olympic champion Fred Curley finishes third he's the defending Sil medalist okay good he's going Kenny bner absolutely surprises finishes second runs 987 and this Podium is maybe not a surprise if it wasn't for the fact that Christian Coleman who arguably is is a shoe in to win a medal at any world championship or Olympic gets left off the team finishes fourth runs a 993 and it kind of broke my heart because Coleman's been around for a really long time he's known as one of the best athletes in the World never made the Olympics right he just missed it in 2016 next Olympics come around he's serving a violation a whereabouts violation this when like the doping control tries to find you to take mandatory drug tests and you're not around questionable what happened there whatever he served his band now he's back and once again he misses the team so my heart goes out to him you know it's not often you see such a high caliber athlete missed the game so that's yeah it told me you know some people say sprinting is dead and boring now that us bolt is not in the sport I think it's the total opposite it's anyone's game all the time the states are so strong and to have an athlete like that be left home is wild to me anything but boring I love watching sprinting just incredible no you don't know's gonna win yeah never no not to the last millisecond it's also kind of the perfect uh social media era event or sport or sub event within a sport I guess we call it because as an example just again this morning just in prep for this for the for this rep pod uh I watched that 100 meter that that final that you're talking about like five six times in a row because like it's a pretty short clip all you know it's a it's a sub 10c experience all things considered even with just sort of like cutting it up like usatf had posted the video the actual race itself when they're in the blocks and going you know start to finish it's like a minute and change long and you just scrub back watch it again scrub back watch it get to like I rewatched the start a bunch of times and like yeah Coleman had an awesome start he was out in front and the commentator kept saying like Christian Coleman like thinking that he was going to run away with this event it was going to be his big sort of breakthrough moment uh and then you know 100 meters the back 50 of that race really important and Noah ly looked like he looked like he had like um like a video game cheat code you use where he just like just like ABAB select start and then he just like took off and was like the last 40 m he just absolutely buried it and then I imagine guys like imagine Netflix right now which are in the throws of producing that sprint docu series for us to watch are like who the hell is this Kenny guy we don't have any footage of Kenny what are we going to do here this guy's going to the Olympics and we've got we've not even talked about him once so that's kind of that's crazy but and that's the The Agony and the Ecstasy of the uh of the Olympic trials construction right that like top three go yep otherwise too bad so sad uh which I don't know how you guys feel about but we can actually get right into why that is kind of a painful thing especially for this us team like Caitlyn the the women's 800 meter final was just like oh man like a gut punch to watch yep that was horrible that was devastating for uh for a Thing mo who got clipped in the 800 meter uh race and just watching the pack and watching her fall down was devastating because I thought first I thought okay maybe it's going to be like what happens in a lot of these track races where she just walks off the track and it just feels hard but she got back up as fast as she could she started racing again which I find super respectful um I know that it's something that I that I always kind of think about it happens a lot in the ultra world like I feel when an elite Runner isn't going to make it and they know they're not going to make it and they decide just to dnf you know I do not finish they decide to get out of the race instead of finishing because they don't want to run all those extra miles if they know they're already behind and they're not going to make a Podium finish I know this is on a very different scale and the fact that it's a lot short of a race but it's the same idea I mean maybe she thought she was going to be able to catch up but I mean even that couple of seconds and such a short race I felt that it was going to be really hard for her to be able to get back into that pack but watching her jump back up and just heal it and just just just turn on the gas and try to go as fast as she could to catch back up it was even it was inspiring but then devastating again when she couldn't make it and just seeing her face at the end I mean I don't know about you guys but I just felt like my heart broke for her because it's just like that's it you're not on the team because I thought she was gonna do it yeah you did yeah yeah like with one lap to go I saw her briefly catch up to the lead group and I thought oh my God this is going to be amazing and no it's awful I mean the good thing about this is I think in the next Olympic cycle she'll still be in the prime of her career I think she's just 22 years old so at least she'll get another crack at the Olympics goodness because she won she was the Olympic champion when she was 19 she started her career so early so she's got another chance and hey it's like weird dark Poetic Justice right because last time around the last us trials it was Nia Akin the 800 meter Runner who fell and didn't qualify for the games this time around she took the win and she's going so no it's was like we we've talked about this in length before it's it's how Cutthroat it is to just have your top three athletes go to the games no questions asked whereas you know here in Canada we're used to this system there's a lot more subjectivity say a top Runner like Mo or Mo's equivalent doesn't perform or Falls or something happens they're sick well then Canada will take into account her past performances and then weigh that against the Championships performance and you end up having perhaps a more I don't know if it's more fair I don't what do you guys think is it more fair to just have the top three go at trials I you guys are not going to be surprised by this rant uh by this rant Get Ready Get Ready listeners rant alert uh I think it would be really nice if there were a league where there were performances for say I don't know 6 8 10 weeks uh maybe even throughout the entire year with an indoor session as well where we had a very clear ranking like a power ranking of each athlete I don't know kind of like all the other grown-up team sports that make a lot of money and we know all the athletes names like in the NBA and the NFL we know who the best teams in the league are because they've got a leaderboard and they've got wins and losses and they've got a ranking system be cool if they had that wouldn't it guys and uh they don't have it right now maybe they will in the near future with the with the big changes that are hopefully coming in the sport but I think that would make a heck of a lot more sense I love the one-off race and I get this argument that this is a snapshot or prep for the Olympic Games Where It's All or Nothing uh and you've got to be able to deliver on the biggest stage and the biggest moment and that's racing I get that but at the same time it's like I think usatf and uh fans of track and field especially American fans are uh are are kind of they're missing missing something significant with e Thing mo not not presumably making it to the to the Olympic uh to an Olympic final you know I mean it it's a presumption to assume that she'd make it all the way to the final but I think we could say so because she's the reigning champ and also just one of the very best in the world at the peak of her powers so I think it sucks I think it sucks all around I don't know what to say uh but at the same time she she lodged a complaint and the complaint was not valid she got clipped that's that's the way it goes tight races and it's it's unfortunate to see we should say Nia Akin she ran a 157 which is a fantastic time uh world-class performance by her to get to the Olympic Games uh and a a a happily Ever After Story as Alex pointed out and Ali Wilson and Juliet Whitaker are also going for the 800 meters for the US which is cool um let's let's segue into a distance a little bit longer than 800 met a little bit longer than sub two minutes a little bit longer than almost an entire day the uh the Western State's 100 mile race is taking place this weekend in Auburn California it's the uh this is just a cliche that's been used the Super Bowl of but it is it's the Super Bowl of the ultra Trail scene it's one of the great races it's kind of like I think Caitlyn like the first it's got the status of being kind of like the first real legit 100 mile it's it's got a real important it's kind of the Boston the Boston Marathon of Ultras right is that am I correct in saying that yeah that that even makes more sense because the Boston Marathon is like the marathon that most people aspire to qualify for and to get to and with western states you have to do the same thing because with West Western States you have to run one of the qualifying races just to be eligible to get into the lottery just to be able to put your ticket in so you've got to kind of go through a process like you would you know with Boston because you have to run a preliminary race you have to be able to finish that race within the cutoff time of that race to be able to qualify for the lottery so you have to qualify for the lottery then you get your ticket into the lottery and the kind of cool thing about the lottery system is that your ticket always stays in the lottery so if you don't get in the first year and you get in the next year and you put another ticket in your chances kind of like multiply over the years so hopefully you'll get in at some point we had one of our Runners and the running club last year put in a ticket for the lottery first timer and he got in so it's like the first time I think someone from Costa Rica went to Western States um which was very cool yeah he was like at least the or one of the first people who had ever gotten in and that was very cool for him he had an amazing time and we trained him for it he did really well and was super happy it was his first 100 mile so really really cool EXP experience um but yeah so so that's why they call it kind of like the Boston Marathon because it's tricky to get in you do have a most most of the people who get in do come in through the lottery and there are these also these other races where they have golden tickets like Black Canyon which is a race that I ran a couple years ago so if you're one of the top two you get an automatic golden ticket to be able to go run Western State so that's like kind of another group of people who get to go but most of them are pretty Elite because they're winning these races and they enter these races for that golden ticket so those are already are usually very competitive as well because they're fighting you have a bunch of people fighting for the golden tickets to get into Western State so yes very tough 100 mile race um net descent right so it does um have more downhill then it does uphill also like the Boston Marathon hard on the quads hard on the quads so um yeah so it's it looks like it's going to be pretty exciting I was watching the panel with uh the elite Racers who are coming in and fighting and gonna you know fight it out for the win um but we've got I think kind of like I don't know if I have top picks I don't know how interested our listeners are and all of this Ultra stuff but maybe because Jim Wamsley had a documentary come out recently about his UTMB um Run Race uh maybe people have heard a little bit more about him he's racing and he also has a course record so that should be super exciting to watch my favorite Courtney dwalter she's not racing this year she has the course record um as well uh but there's this amazing Trail Runner Katie shy who's going to be in there in the Runnings and of course there are a handful of fantastic Runners on both the men and women fields and I think they're going to give those two a hard time anyway but um it's going to be kind of fun to watch so if you like trail running and you're interested in getting into it western states is the one to watch because the elite fields are like super stacked and it's going to be an exciting race so Michael how does it feel to think that if you did West states that means you would do your entire Trail Run finish it turn around and then do it again I mean yes good point Alex I don't want to think about that man that's that's just cruel I like I do like Western States tagline is 100 miles one day and um could it be 100 miles two days I don't know it would be in my case you said your ego wasn't bruised let's work on that yeah well you know what you and I could do Alex is because it's so hard to get in and there's a a tough Lottery to get you and I just start entering our names in now and yeah no I'm okay it's fine I'm okay and eventually when we finally get our ticket pulled we'll be ready to run 100 mile because it'll be like you know maybe 10 or 12 years down the line but uh I think my yearly mileage has gone down in the last 10 years uh so I don't know where this is trending listen it's a one-off you just got to get it done right just do it I've never thought about running Western States but if you guys go I'm going I mean I'm intrigued by stuff like this I'm not going to like get over my skis here too much and uh and uh claim I'm ever going to get to explore doing Western States because it's extremely hard to get in first of all and I've got no business thinking I would so but it sounds like a really cool event although and you can you can stream it um I believe they provide a stream um we are we've got coverage uh our our colleague Jesse carveth our news editor has written a a a complete preview and a deep Dot on who the runners are to know what the course is all about what the experience is like uh start time starts at 5:00 a.m. local time in California uh what the weather's going to be like uh spoiler alert hot uh hot very hot like very hot like almost like in the '90s it's going to be brutal like it goes starts by going up a mountain and then it goes down into this Ravine into this like kind of famous riverbed area and yeah it's just a really cool race with a huge history it's worth doing the like nerdy internet deep dive on it uh just just reading the Wikipedia article alone is kind of neat but also you know there's some there's some great stuff and like the New York Times did a feature on Jim Jim Wamsley a couple years ago and he's kind of become he's a legend of ultra running now a living legend that's at kind of still at his Peak and uh he'll be racing this weekend so you'll look for a big performance from him so yeah very cool event worth following for sure um even as a casual uh as as I think Alex and I more are you're obviously a died in the wool Ultra Ultra fiend Caitlyn and uh but it's it's one of the ones to pay this one UTMB um Hard Rock they're fun to fun to follow in like wild events and very aspirational yeah um all right let's take a quick break and then we will get into our big topic of the day buying running shoes in 2024 uh what are we looking at here uh what's some some recommendations from our uh our shoes are alexir uh as well as unpacking best Super Shoes of the Year and much much more we'll be right [Music] back all right and we're back shoes 2024 Alex you're our shoe expert here at Marathon handbook uh I'm not sure if shoes are easier to shop for uh and to figure out what shoe is best for you for training for racing or if it's more complex more muddied you recently created uh an excellent YouTube video rounding out the top five training shoes so far this year kind of a a midyear a mid 2024 check-in appropriately halfway through through this year and you've got the same treatment coming up for the Super Shoes for Racing shoes which will be a video that's going to drop in the next couple of days so we thought it'd be a good time to talk about how it is you go about shopping for shoes what shoes you select for training and for racing what the heck all these different categories are now it used to be used to be neutral used to be uh stability and then you get your racing shoot as well uh what's the lay of the land right now for us yeah those categories still exist but I wouldn't say that they're the main qualifier of what a shoe is it's not about stability neutral as much as it's about the speed of the shoe and by that I mean I think you have like three categories of shoes now okay you have your training shoes which are the shoes that your dad wears and the shoes that probably you've worn for most of your running career um they're the A6 Nimbus or they're the Nike Pegasus the good rule of thumb is if the shoe has a big number in its name it's a training shoe because it's been around for a really long time it's your bread and butter okay then you have the Super Shoes the Super Shoes are those fancy Racing shoes that we see first we started seeing all the elites wearing them and now mostly everybody who enters a race is wearing a pair of Super Shoes so that's your Nike vaporfly or your Adidas adios Pro they have carbon plates in them that's their main differentiator and they also have a pretty big slab of foam that we call peba foam P is for polymer it's basically just a more responsive lighter foam and if you've ever tried a pair of Super Shoes on you know what they feel like they just bounce off the ground way more than your classic training shoes and they're quite a bit lighter that's two categories the third and I'd say probably the most recent category are the super trainers which is kind of a hybrid of both right you have it's a shoe with this cool foam maybe not a carbon plate but the main differentiator is that they're massive they're made to save the feet they're made to give you a little bit more support than a training shoe for your everyday workouts but also are springloaded so that they make you feel fast and the rule of thumb is you know if you want if you don't mind buying a few pairs of shoes you use training shoes for easy runs you use super Trainers for workouts and then Super Shoes for races it's like probably the most simple way to lay it out okay I think I'm missing a pair of shoes then really yes um what a shame I think I have an excuse to buy a new pair of shoes because Alex told me to got I'm missing I'm missing the super trainers I don't have I think I'm doing the workouts in either a trainer probably I think an everyday trainer or I'm using my my retired Super Shoes from the recent Marathon so I'm missing I'm missing that in between super trainer that I definitely want to to give a try to if if you tell me I'm going to be faster in my workouts then I'll do it yeah well you and everybody else and I think that's why super trainers exist like a couple years ago many people had bought a pair of Super Shoes and that was for their races only and did all of their other runs in training shoes but then when it came to that that key session right the few workouts that you do before the race to really tune up people would ask themselves should I just keep wearing my regular old trainers or do I put on my Super Shoes to simulate a race the problem with that obviously is if you keep wearing Super Shoes and training you wear them out they're not all that durable I think they probably last about 200 300 kilometers and they're super expensive so people were ripping through their Super Shoes and there was a gap there you need that third middling pair of shoes and I use them for all workouts I get these Super Shoes or S these super trainers um yeah they they they fill they fill a they fill a gap in in the in the arsenal of shoes now for most people yeah I think that I think what was happening as Caitlyn just touched upon is that for quite a while so okay so the super shoe came out 2017 2018 they start to really kind of trickle into the mainstream and you run like I don't know a couple say like two marathons in the Nike vaporfly or whatever and then you start second guessing the uh how much juice how much oomph is left in your super shoe when you go into Marathon number three and you're like well I want to get that 4ish perc bump in performance I want to shave off those seconds or even minutes uh and attack a personal best in the marathon so I'm not leaving any time on the table I'm going to reload buy a fresh pair of shoes and of course like the Nike or then Adidas and other brands marketing was pretty good so you get lured into the latest iteration but then you had this like 350 is or more dollar pair of of shoes that you're kind of looking at them and you're like there's still a little bit of life left in these so you transition into using them in workouts uh or in long runs as well because I think one of the sneaky uh cool upsides of the super shoe and now the super trainer is that you can bounce back pretty quickly from a hard workout or a long run by wearing these things because they've just got so much cushioning to them right and at first we were seeing Elite a report of elite athletes doing this training a lot more on those shoes because they're able to recover a lot better from a 20m long run um particularly with a lot of hard effort in there and then you start hearing about recreational Runners doing the same thing I know quite a few Runners that do that that still do that um but that's a pretty expensive proposition especially when you start buying a super shoe to use for training so yeah the super trainer makes a lot of sense okay so Alex you've the obviously the N let's say about 85 90% of your running is going to be done in an everyday trainer maybe like 8 to 10 maybe even 15% is done in in a super trainer or maybe even more maybe if you're doing your long runs sup in there the super trainer might take up about 20% kind of the 8020 roll and then there's like a one or two% that you're uh that you're running in a super shoe when you're racing so that big 80% slab of running that you're going to do all the volume you're going to do for throughout the entire summer for that fall Marathon or training for a 10K or a half marathon you did a video where you recommended a top five Training everyday trainers like what's your what are your picks what are your recommendations for for anybody who I'm the I'm new to running or I'm just looking to get a fresh pair of shoes Alex tell me what shoes I should buy so there's the ranking video and then also we made a video after that so we'll start with this actually was my number four training shoe in my personal ranking okay but this shoe I pick that that's is the one I tell people they should buy when they ask me they've never run before they want to buy a pair of shoes I I tell them to get the A6 Nimbus 26 and the reason for that is it's a safe shoe I've been wearing it lately coming back from injury it's not a fast shoe it's not a sexy shoe whatsoever you don't bounce off ground wearing an A6 Nimbus again your Dad wears it right you've seen it for years it but what it is it's durable lasts a really long time like I've worn pairs of nimus for like 1,200 kilometers which is a really long time running and also they're comfortable they have the support and I've never had an issue with them so that that's like my safe recommendation for my own personal preference I ranked number four do you want to go you want me to go five to one favorite shoes just run through the top five very quickly so that you know if you're obviously if you're not an as6 person you can be like oh well then there's a Brooks or a a um a new balance option or whatever yeah well okay we'll start at five five was the Hoka Clifton nine the cool part about that shoe is that it's super cushioned but it's light it it would float in a puddle let's say uh it's not that durable that's the issue with it my Clifton tend to flame out after 600 kilometers but for someone who wants a light training shoe that's a good pick if you're a fan of hokas go for it number four is the Nimbus that I just mentioned number three I went with Brooks the glycerin 21 I haven't worn much Brooks in my life but this one it's a Goldilocks right it's it's kind of lightweight it has good durability good support right it's not the best at any category but it's quite solid and I like wearing it because it makes me feel a little bit bouncy on my easy runs without me going too fast and without it being too springloaded and make me run out of control the glycerin is a good pick number two I went with the New Balance 880 v14 a little bias on my end I grew up on New Balance the zantes were an absolute hit for me they don't make them

any yeah and the the 880s are probably the closest thing to that somewhat smaller as a training shoe bounc off the ground pretty well still has some good support and just fit well on my feet and number one I went off the map and I thought people would respond to that video being like oh cool this is a cool new shoe I got torn apart people hate this shoe Nike Invincible run three it's like it's a weird shoe doesn't feel like the others it it it does have a bit of muscle you can maybe make a case for it being a super trainer just because it has a big slab of pretty responsive foam it's a rigid shoe it puts your foot straight and kind of guides you through your run the reason I picked it is because just feel natural my stride doesn't feel too awkward when I run in it and also that one too has lasted me about 12200 km so and I still have it I haven't thrown them out yet so the Nike Invincible run three if you're somewhat curious to try a new kind of of training shoe was that that was top- notot for me I have to admit I'm one of those people that was just kind of shaking my head when we were going through the edits of that video I was like Al look whoa that's like a a bold top pick I'm like I'm not a big fan of that the Invincible shoe I maybe I haven't put enough kilometers in it or miles in it and you you did touch upon something really important about running shoes overall is that there's kind of two different subdomains uh experientially with training shoes there's the you put it on and it's just like it's the glass slipper except running in a glass slipper would totally suck but uh it's like the equivalent of the glass slipper you just put it on it's like oh that just it just feels right my foot fits this is Magic and I have that experience when I wear Brooks shoes uh and that's like the magic of Brooks and I think the highest the highest uh uh um the highest compliment that you can give to a shoe company is that they make shoes I don't know how they do it they make shoes that where you slip them on you're just like that that uh abused running term comes to mind plush you're just like a this this is just this is a this feels what the word plush this that's how my feet feel right now uh is like saying the word plush and the Nike shoe totally different than that kind of firm kind of weird like just kind of like but you have to break it in and I think that that's the the big issue so maybe if you're willing to go on a few runs where you're kind of wondering why you bought the shoe it may pay dividends in the end but that's a very risky proposition right it's it's really hard to buy a shoe and convince yourself that it's going to work out and then it works works out um yeah yeah and that's why I think people just need to go to stores and test out shoes for themselves because there is some personal variability right some people hate long like big heel to toe drop like the the vertical difference between how tall the heel is in the show the the shoe and how tall the toe is some people can't deal with it some people like zero drop for some people it's the opposite you need to try out shoes so my thing is I've never liked socony shoes I've tried they've been big for so long a lot of people like them especially their Main Stays like the canaras the Sak ride I'm convinced that they're good shoes because most people do enjoy them but they don't work for me I get shin splints I get pains they don't feel comfortable and I think that's just it sometimes your feet don't mesh with a certain type of shoe and that's why like don't don't just watch the video and order the shoes online go to The Running Store try them out the best running stores are the ones that like let you go outside like in the parking lot and do a couple strides in the shoes that's so helpful and you know I I wish I would have done that a bit more in my past because sometimes I just bought shoes because they looked cool and I wanted to like them one of them is the Pegasus the Nike Pegasus I I cannot deal with I can't stand it it's too shallow for my foot I wear Orthotics and my heel pops out and it sucks because they're cool and oftentimes they're cheap when you find them at outlet stores and when they're the previous models but but I gave up it doesn't work for me do you guys have like a a shoe that you can't deal with that you hate I think I've been trying for a really long time it's not that it's just I've been I want to love Hoka I oh wow I I want to love Hoka because all the trail scen people use Hoka Hoka is the Big Brand um I have had some good experiences with Hoka but like for me to use a Hoka shoe I have to be like if I'm thinking about trail running it has to be like basically a road because the shoes are so clunky that I feel like I need less surface area being covered to have really good control over technical terrain that's thing that's been yeah it's been like tricky for me because I just can't I try them out and I just I I find myself switching back um to other stuff I mean for road as you said the the the Cinderella shoe Brooks is for me I have you know the glycerin I have the trace have the launch I have I love Brooks and actually I'm going to try out I just um they're coming today which is so exciting I'm going to try um well the Divide is actually a hybrid shoe that Brooks did between Trail and Road and I wore that in Black Canyon a couple years ago because it wasn't going to be so Technical and I loved that so I got another pair of those that I'm going to try out and I'm going back to the H Cascadia which is an old Brooks oh wow yeah yeah it's an old Brooks uh trail running shoe and they've kind of made the toe box a little wider so I'm super excited about that and I'm actually getting those today so I'm excited to try those out this weekend um on on my trail run but I think like I just want to love Hoka and I just haven't been able to get into the groove with them but but like a disaster shoe not yet Michael do you have a disaster shoe I don't have a full on like unmitigated disaster uh I'm pretty flexible when it comes to shoes I've I've been fortunate enough working in this industry for a long time now to test out like every single shoe and many iterations of every shoe over the years I would say um for a super shoe the alphafly I've always kind of wanted to like the alphafly it's like it's Kip shogi's shoe it's like it's close to like uh you know LeBron and has gets has the LeBron shoe and there was the the Kobe shoe I like basketball players always of course the Air Jordans and and the the alpal Flies kind of was kind of the closest thing to like a runner getting a signature chew as as you can get in in our world in the marathon world in particular and so I was kind of always excited and intrigued by the alpha fly uh and it just never worked for me it was sort of like I have a narrow foot but it just felt so I it should work cuz it's kind of known to be a narrow shoe with a high arch and it it just didn't feel like my foot didn't fit in it properly and I just never could do the alpha fly uh but Alex similar to you like the Pegasus I'm very hit and miss with my issue with the Pegasus is this it feels like a fantastic kind of just right everyday neutral trainer when you put it on your foot and you're right it's so alluring because Nike they just they know how to do the marketing right it's it just looks good the colorways are nice yeah and and I find they wear out for me fairly quickly like I find the I'm a mid to four foot Striker so I find it gets really thin in the four foot pretty quickly after just like you know 200 miles I'm like uh I'm just not getting as much out of that shoe as I want I want that shoe to last 500 miles and or 800k or whatever and I just find it's lasting less than that so I need a little bit more out of my shoe than that that would be the that would be my it's just like a a mild appointment from time to time I yeah guys so what are you wearing right now I think this is a great um a great segue until what's on your feet like what's what's your what's your go-to shoe right now what are you putting the miles in on Alex what do you the Red Dirt of Prince ardt Island what are you what are you covering in that in that iconic uh that iconic scree yeah if I come back to Toronto next week people will think I've been to Kenya because my sneakers are all red it's like no it's not so cool I've just been on the island no me it's the Nimbus right now just to come back from injury usually I alternate I know I know you both alternate shoes but my I had some packing issues basically needed to stuff a bunch of podcasting gear inside of a backpack and can only fit one pair of shoes and I thought well that much right now one pair of as6 nus should do the trip and so far I've been I've been happy with it I was hoping to get into a racing season with the alphafly but it's the same and there's so much shame with noticing that the alpha fly is not for you because it's like it's it's the like you said it's the Nike shoe so it's like Nike is not the problem you're the problem you should you should be fitting in these shoes so Racing shoes still not sure what I'll be wearing up this year I like I like smaller Super Shoes as opposed to bigger Super Shoes so alphafly probably not I have a couple choices of what I'm probably going to wear Nike Vapor fly 3 is a sleeper for me cuz it's the understudy of the alphafly right it's just not as sexy but it's smaller and I think it's lighter and I think it's faster and I think it's better and it's shaped a whole lot like there's an A6 shoe that I really like the meta speed Pais same thing on the smaller quote unquote minimalist size for the Super Shoe you compared to your big mass of alpha flies and Co so either these two so I I think soon enough enough I'll be in a rotation of as6 nimbus Hoka Skyward x super trainer leave that out there and either the as6 meta speed Paris and or Nike Vaper fly for racing yeah I think my sh rotation right now is obviously some sort of the Brooks because I'm I'm rotating out the glycerin the newer glycerins and the A6 NOA blast which I love which I use today yeah those have been great for me and my question mark of the super trainers that I would like to add into the rotation and I'm also a vaporfly lover ever since the my Marathon that I just ran and I used the vaporfly and I absolutely loved them so I think that will be when I do another Marathon or any road racing I would like to use definitely The Vapor Flies again because but I did I do think they're so cool looking I had the like neon orange ones with the purple Teck I thought they were cool looking yeah they were really awesome it was like when I was running and they took the photos of me running at the marathon I could only see the shoes like I could it was just like this you know neon uh light coming out of the the road but um but yeah that's pretty much what I'm what I'm using right now I uh I am rotating right now through like Caitlyn I'm wearing a pair of Brooks and I had a similar experience that you have both described with that that plush feeling when I put on a pair of Brooks launch Okay so the launch is a bit of an oddball in the Brooks lineup because it's kind of a I think it's been positioned now as being kind of a stripped down almost like trainer workout shoe slash maybe kind of more like recreational racer shoe as well cuz it's fairly basic it's like a basic neutral trainer quick trainer but I kind of like that feeling I've always sort of drifted towards I can wear a pretty light shoe uh and it doesn't seem to bother me my love affair with with shoes my my my one true life partner with with running shoes has always been the Adidas adios which has gone through many many iterations and has now graduated into Super Shoe stardom as being the adios Pro but they also still make the adios kind of racing slipper that doesn't have any of the uh pea foam or the the carbon plate and I still buy those so I still have a pair of those I wear a pair of adios oh sorry Adidas uh Boston for some of my workouts but Alex now that you've brought up the super trainer as a a core component of your weekly running I think I might adopt that approach as well and find myself the just right super trainer I'm not sure which one yet I I'm intrigued by your love of the the Hocus sky word x uh we tested that in Boston and it was a nice looking shoe and it it it it by all accounts sounds like it kind of delivers on the the conceit and in terms of terms of Super Shoes in terms of The Big Race I'm gonna go after it in Chicago this October and I want a good shoe I want the best shoe I don't know what I'm going to go with I am thankfully done with this worn out pair of Nike Vapor Flies the like lime green ones I it was just the worst worst fraking colorway ever when they came out with the green and the pink I didn't like either color I was like I don't know I'll take the green ones I guess I'm so happy that I'm finally done with those those are trash they're finished so I'm G to I'm going to treat myself going into uh Chicago and I what I want Alex knows what I'm gonna say I I want the Adidas adios Pro Evo one or two if they have a second one coming out in the fall which I suspect they will because we've seen it on some Elite Runners Feet this spring and I think it will be featured heavily in the Olympics as well it's that super duper light absolute like it's the alphafly killer there was a lot of hype around it because it was we did we did a a segment on this I believe in the past where it was a lot of hype on around the SHO because it was allegedly a oneandone one marathon and then it was cooked and then you couldn't run it anymore it was like all it had in it was one Marathon but it would give you your greatest Marathon that's apparently untrue Alex and I have done some reporting on that we talked to some Engineers from uh Adidas some shoe designers and they said no no this is like totally a misunderstanding it lasts longer than that so bring me the evo I want the Evo it also looks it just look aesthetically it's a beautiful looking shoe too uh so very minimal very classic lines it kind of looks like the it looks like the like if if uh the adios shoe which I've always loved is like a classic sports car the Evo version kind of looks like an F1 version um it's just like there's there's no doors on this thing there's no roof there's no windshield it's just you put the you put the driver in the center and it's a giant engine in TI and it goes right with a lot of down Force so that's the shoe I want we'll see if I can actually get my hands on a pair because there's an issue with like they only make like 500 of them so um yeah that's where I'm at um what's what's your I mean I sort of teased what my all-time favorite shoe is do you guys have an all-time favorite I a shoe came to mind as as we were chatting I mean okay alltime favorite shoe yeah you'd almost need to break down categories so to keep keep it simple let me bring up this one shoe that I have in my basement and that I've been wearing for my bike rides my stationary bike rides here to do my last part of my daily training I get on the spin bike there's a shoe here that I haven't worn in just about seven years and I found it in the basement it's a shoe of a bygone era the minimalist era when there was no carbon plates no pea foam and the metric by which we evalu way to choose was only one likeness MH Mizuno got ahead of the game at this point okay made pair of shoes that was lighter than any pair of shoes I've ever encountered I think in the world if I'm wrong I'd love for someone to let me know 2.9 oun okay Mizuno Wave Universe there were five iterations I had number five they're glorified slippers I wore them for a 10K once I couldn't do stairs for the next three days and it was I was staying in my friend's basement because he was in Ottawa where the race was and so me and my other friends who were completely KNE deep inside of this minimalist phase or or belief couldn't even get down to our bedrooms our Cales were so torn up anyway I kept the shoes they're full of blood it's more of a state piece at this I like it and I I took it and I I took it and I took one of my like New Balance super comp trainers which is massive and I compared the two and I'd say the Mauna wave universe is a third the size but they're slippers you throw them up in the air outside and the wind blows them away it is crazy and I wouldn't wear them these days because I think they're terrible for your legs but oh I just I admire the boldness and the zuno boldness to make these slippers to see how many people would buy

them oh my goodness I'm I'm I'm trying to think that's why I'm still quiet I'm like okay I don't think that I can say a favorite pair of shoes but I'm going to piggyback on the minimalist phase that we all go through and so when I started trail running I had some great support down here from innovate and so innovate yeah with the eight yeah the eight innovate and so um you would think that they were more maybe like shoes to work out at the gym but they do have TR running shoes and when I started trail running about 11 years ago I think one of my first pairs of shoes were innovas and I can't even remember the model that's how long ago we're talking a very very long time ago we got pictures somewhere um but I thought that they were super fun shoes and yeah I was running much more minut as a trail Runner I really have liked hard shoes for a long time because I like to feel the trail especially here where everything's so technical it's not like if I were on you know nice gravel smooth trails and Roads it would be a little different because I could use something that it's a little cushier but so the innovate was really great for tricky technical terrain because you're really close to the ground um but and I and I do believe that those were zero drops so that was I have come far from the minimalist stage and I don't really use minimal shoes anymore at all and I've got that nice heila toe drop and all my shoes and stuff but I did go through that phase Alex with those like super light minimal you know zero drop shoes uh as well for a while I feel like the minimalist phase I feel like in the running in your running Journey going through the minimalist phase is kind of like when you like when you're like a a freshman in college and you discover Marxism and you read The Communist Manifesto and for like a couple of years you're like we need to change society man we need to do this we need to do things differently this is crazy capitalism is evil you know then you grow up and you just kind of give up on that stuff or maybe you don't and kudos to you I guess but but the uh I feel like that's the minimalist phase where it's just like it's all a lie cushioning is a lie and then you get to be you know in your old age of your you know 30s or 40s and you're just like you know what a little bit of a little bit a slab of something underf foot is not a bad idea like this hurts a little bit yeah it hurts a little bit yeah yeah it's like I want I want to pretend this is this is easy but it's not although I I will say that I do like a lighter shoe like I do I do like to feel the ground underneath my feet a little bit so yeah yeah all right we've we've gone deep deep down the the shoe Rabbit Hole uh We've compared minimalism to Marxism that's right if you're still listening to this podcast at this point uh thank you we appreciate you yeah uh Alex you've got a video coming out which is kind of The Sibling video to your top five training shoes everyday running shoes of the year so far which will be the top five Super Shoes of 204 so far brilliant that's coming out I think it's gonna come out the Paw's dropping on a Friday on Friday so it's gonna come out in the next couple of days just so subscribe to our YouTube channel and you'll get all of Alex's videos and so much more they they are truly wonderful so make sure you watch them and if you haven't already rate and subscribe uh subscribe of course and rate and review this podcast it helps us out a lot and follow us on our socials our colleague Jesse's putting out new news stories new news multiple times a day on our site marathon hook.com every single day and uh I'm we're just putting I'm in the process right now of putting together our Olympic editorial package or plan for how we're going to cover the Olympics and uh you know we've got the whole Marathon season coming up this fall as well so make sure you follow follow everything we're doing and all sorts of exciting things coming down the pipe for us uh Rebrand is forthcoming uh it's going to be an exciting year uh to to wrap things up in 2024 for us all right guys thanks very much we'll talk soon thank you till next time